11/15/1994 Regular Meeting s
Airport Advisory Committee RECEIVED
November 15, 1994
12:00 noon
Borough Conference Room APR 191995
MINUTES NULAAK iSLANO BOROUGH
CLERK'S OFFICE
I. CALL TO ORDER
The Airport Advisory Committee regular meeting of November 15, 1994, was
called to order by Wayne Stevens, Chairman, at 12:08 p.m. in the borough
conference room.
I
H. ROLL CALL
Present Absent Staff Guests
Stosh Anderson Joe Brodman Bud Cassidy Murph O'Brien
Wesley Campbell Jacque Bunting Rachael Miller
(for Cmdr. Miller) John Chya
Dan Dorman Lee Robbins
Mike Machulsky Mike Waller
Scott Schleiffer
Wayne Stevens
A quorum was established.
III. ACCEPTANCE OF AGENDA
The agenda was accepted with the addition of FY 96 Budget as an item of business as
suggested by Stosh Anderson.
IV. MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING
The July 18, 1994 meeting minutes were approved as submitted.
V. ITEMS OF BUSINESS
D Discussion with Murph O'Brien, Chief of Leasing, Central Region, State of
Alaska, Department of Transportation
Mr. Stevens welcomed Murph O'Brien of the State of Alaska Department of
Transportation (DOT) and explained that Mr. O'Brien would provide the committee an
update on State Airport.
Mr. O'Brien stated that the lease negotiations between the State of Alaska and the U.S.
Coast Guard (USCG) were ongoing. He indicated that there was a new agreement
concerning terms. He stated that the lease was being handled by DOT's Right of Way
(ROW) division and indicated that DOT Leasing played a support role. He explained
that the state's attorney had looked at the agreement and that comments were being
prepared back to ROW. He informed the committee that Shirley Horn had been hired
Airport Advisory Committee Page 1 of 9 November 15, 1994
i
i
I
i
i
r
as Union Deputy Chief of Right of Way. He stated that Ms. Horn would get involved
i in the lease agreement as she dealt with aviation Right of Way issues.
t
Mr. Machulsky asked if it was within the State's budget to dive into the prospect of
fixing. the entry roads into the parking area.
i
Mr. O'Brien stated that any improvements to the utility system would be capital
improvements.
I
Mr. Machulsky asked if that was what was holding up the lease.
Mr. O'Brien stated that they were talking about a 55 -year agreement this time.
Mr. Machulsky asked if the committee would have a chance to comment on the draft of
the lease. He stated that the Borough should have some review capacity.
Mr. O'Brien indicated that he would check with the Right of Way division on that.
Mr. Stevens asked if there was any timeframe on the lease completion.
Mr. O'Brien indicated that Fran Zimmerman had said comments would be in by the
end of the year. Mr. O'Brien asked Mr. Campbell of the Coast Guard if a public
review period had been established.
Mr. Campbell indicated that a public review period had not been established.
Mr. Stevens asked how long negotiations had been going on.
It was stated that lease negotiations had been going on for over a year.
Mr. Schleiffer asked why the Coast Guard even had to be involved with the lease and
asked why the Coast Guard didn't just sell the airport to the State.
Mr. O'Brien stated that was an option that had been discussed. He pointed out that a
55 -year lease was now being considered. He stated that there were many issues
surrounding taking the title to the airport.
Mr. Machulsky asked if the lease boundary being discussed was State Airport proper.
Mr. Campbell stated that the boundary took in the AUW compound and indicated that
the warehouse on the hill had been taken off.
Mr. Machulsky asked if there was a scheduled clean up for the AUW area.
Mr. Campbell stated that no such clean up was scheduled.
Mr. Machulsky clarified that the boundary was nothing off the runway areas off of
State Airport proper.
Mr. Schleiffer stated that there was a nice fence that now helped to define the
boundary.
Mr. O'Brien stated that the big issue was the utility /master agreement. He stated that
there were a couple projects in the capital improvements for FY 97 including runway
Airport Advisory Committee Page 2 of 9 November 15, 1994
paving and a snow removal sand storage building. He stated that he had planned to
bring the Coastal Engineer down to look at crash harbor but indicated he wasn't able to
d make it because he was ill. He indicated that the State was interested in improvements
in that area too. He informed the committee that there was an update to the Aviation
System Plan going on. He indicated that the document provided an overall look at
C development of the airports around the state. He said he hadn't heard of any
earthshaking developments there and indicated he would funnel news to the committee
as it came in.
Mr. Anderson asked how far out the State was at applying funds to specific projects.
Mr. O'Brien stated that most aviation projects could be developed in 2 -3 years time but
that it depended on the complexity of the project. He stated that most construction
projects in Kodiak took two construction seasons. He indicated there were other
factors that sometimes slowed the process.
Mr. Anderson asked if that time period was after the funds had been committed.
Mr. O'Brien stated that the time period was leading up to the funds being committed.
Mr. Schleiffer asked if anyone had ever discussed an approach lighting system on
Runway 25. He stated that it would mean a few more planes would get in when the
weather was bad. He asked if the State would handle such developments.
Mr. O'Brien responded that sometimes it would be the State and sometimes it would be
the FAA.
Mr. Anderson asked Mr. Schleiffer what class of lighting system he was suggesting.
Mr. Schleiffer stated the bigger the system the bigger the environmental impact. He
stated it would be nice to be able to see a basic instrument lighting system there.
Mr. Machulsky stated that a lot of different options had been explored in the past such
as a microwave landing system and a global positioning system (GPS). He stated that
it boiled down to whether the aircarriers could invest the money. He stated that lights
in the water could be a problem.
Mr. O'Brien stated that they could also look at the percentages of how that lighting
system would actually help planes getting in.
Mr. Schleiffer stated it would be good to compare to the Anchorage airport system.
2) Update on engineering and costs of proposed improvements of Coast Guard
small boat harbor ramp and fresh water wash down area at State Airport
provided by Bud Cassidy, Kodiak Island Borough Resource Manager
A memo was passed out from Bud Cassidy, Resource Manager for the Borough,
regarding his findings.
Mr. Cassidy stated he was present to report on the ramp due to his role as the Borough
person who was responsible for getting permits for projects and because the Borough
engineering department was presently overloaded.
Airport Advisory Committee Page 3 of 9 November 15, 1994
i
I
I
I
I
He outlined the two areas the committee had been discussing at the last meeting:
improving the ramp, and installing a washdown area. He indicated that he met with
j Barry Still of Lash Corporation to look at the area and explore costs. He stated that the
$14,000 budgeted would not pay for both projects. He indicated that the Mayor had
suggested that given the costs of installing a washdown facility, it might not be
something the committee wanted to pursue.
Mr. Cassidy stated that the ramp project was feasible and indicated that all it might take
would be a grader. H Y as more e stated that the washdown facility w expensive
t o e e nsive from a
construction aspect. He stated that the washdown facility would also require special
permits and agreements and might become too complicated and more expensive than
$14,000. He stated that he was looking for direction and asked the committee what
they wanted to pursue. Mr. Cassidy indicated that there was also a depression at the
end of the runway.
Mr. O'Brien stated that use of the ramp was included in the lease.
Mr. Stevens asked if the projects could be broken down into a separate dollar amounts.
Mr. Cassidy stated that he didn't have specific costs but indicated that a grader would
be inexpensive.
Mr. Schleiffer asked if the $14,000 had to be spent all in the same year or if it could be
carried over.
Mr. Machulsky asked about the depression at the end of the runway.
Mr. Dorman stated that because of the depression planes could not get in at low tide.
He said it was more of a flat spot rather than a depression. He stated that he thought
maintenance of that area would be the biggest problem and stated that snow removal
down there could be an issue. He said there was a lot of debris on the ramp that made
things difficult.
Mr. Cassidy stated that Barry Still had suggested grading over the area. He pointed out
that there would have to be ongoing maintenance of the ramp.
Mr. O'Brien stated that additional maintenance was always a concern. He suggested
that perhaps there was some compromise agreement that could be reached.
Mr. Dorman stated that the idea behind clearing up the ramp area was to increase the
user group at the airport. He stated the float plane operators would be the biggest
group that would be impacted by the improvement.
Mr. Anderson stated that to his knowledge the Borough had not officially determined
that the money would be used at State Airport.
Mr. Stevens stated that Mr. Anderson would have to look at the minutes from the
assembly meeting in late July. He stated it was his understanding that there was a
commitment made by the Assembly to spend the money at State Airport. Mr. Stevens
stated that the float planes were important and getting the ramp up to speed would be
key.
Mr. Dorman stated that the money was generated from general aviation and the
committee decided it should be used for general aviation.
Airport Advisory Committee Page 4 of 9 November 15, 1994
I Mr. Cassidy clarified that the biggest issue was maintenance.
Mr. Dorman stated that the facility was adequate, it just needed maintenance.
It was stated that there had been a point where the Coast Guard didn't want the traffic
r
from that area.
i
Mr. O'Brien stated that the Coast Guard had said the land could be used "as is, where
is" with the users would accepting any liability. He stated that at some point, the
i
procedures would have to be formalized.
Mr. Schleiffer stated that if the ramp had been in disrepair and the committee were to
fix it, then it would need to get regular attention for maintenance, such as snow
removal. He suggested that the Borough could coordinate with the State for that
maintenance.
Mr. O'Brien said that it needed to be sorted out. He indicated that the problem the
State had was that the maintenance budget had been cut. He stated that the head of
Maintenance and Operations would have to be told about the added maintenance
responsibilities and he cautioned that maintenance of the area might be considered a
bottom priority.
Mr. Machulsky stated that the maintenance of such outlying areas already was a bottom
priority and indicated that had been discussed at the last meeting.
Mr. Stevens stated that the whole discussion was reminiscent of what the committee
and previous Airport Task Force had been talking about for 7 to 8 years. He stated
that the situation with the Coast Guard, the State, and Borough had been ongoing and
was no further along than before.
Mr. O'Brien suggested that if there was sufficient area there that maybe a private party
would be interested in leasing the area.
Mr. Schleiffer stated that for maintenance purposes the seaplane ramp would have to
come ahead of taxiways as it was an extension of a runway. He stated that the ramp
was how a float plane operator would get his plane to his runway. He stated that it had
been a long time since it had been maintained and pointed out that the overhead year to
year for maintenance wouldn't be that high.
It was asked how often a float plane operator would use that area.
Mr. Dorman stated that this time of year he would use it every other day and in the
summer it was not used much at all. He said use of the ramp was primarily between
Seahawk and Uyak Air. He further stated that if it the area was brought up to speed it
might help attract general aviation at State Airport if users knew they could get their
planes out there.
Mr. Stevens stated that the committee was rehashing previous discussions.
Mr. Dorman stated that he would like to see things move forward. He indicated that
he obviously had an interest in ramp improvements and stated that there were enough
people who would use the ramp to justify its repair.
Airport Advisory Committee Page 5 of 9 November 15, 1994
Mr. O'Brien stated that the ramp wasn't in the previous agreement but now it was
included. He said he needed to check into the maintenance issues. He indicated that
the Coast Guard and State let people use the ramp but pointed out that it was an
additional maintenance responsibility and that it needed to be reviewed to see how it
could work.
i
Mr. Machulsky suggested the committee should go ahead and start on the upgrade of
the ramp.
Mr. Schleiffer stated that it was obvious the washdown facility would be worthless
without the ramp and suggested that the committee focus on the ramp. He suggested
that Mr. O'Brien come back to the committee with an annual cost to maintain the ramp
and stated that the committee could then work on getting the funding.
Mr. O'Brien stated that they should wait until the lease was completed. He stated that
there was a certain amount of responsibility on the users.
Mr. Cassidy stated that the money had been raised off of property taxes.
Mr. Anderson stated that he had wanted to wait and talk about the money and where it
came from under the last item of business on the agenda. He stated that in reviewing
the committee's minutes there were some gross inadequacies. He asked why it was
assumed that the Borough would have to pay for maintenance and questioned why it
was not part of the State's responsibilities.
Mr. O'Brien stated that the revenues the State received from leases didn't even cover
the maintenance and operations costs. He stated that any additional maintenance would
cost money and indicated that the costs of maintenance were a sticky wicket. He
indicated he was not ruling out the maintenance becoming a priority but was simply
cautioning that it may not be a priority. He said that the State generated $1 million a
year from leases and expended $6 million a year on maintenance. He stated it was not
a profit operation.
Mr. Stevens stated that it was a catch -22. He expressed that if the maintenance wasn't
done, then the users wouldn't be attracted.
Mr. O'Brien clarified that he was not saying the Borough would be responsible for
maintenance but stated that if there was an opportunity for the Borough to put money
towards maintenance then that could be explored. He stated that if there was grading
going on there, then there would need to be discussion about obtaining a building
permit. He indicated that the committee could work through John Chya, the State
Airport Manager.
31 FY 96 Budget
Mr. Anderson explained that he requested the FY 96 Budget be added to the agenda.
He stated that obviously the $14,000 was not going to cover the list of projects the
committee had discussed and certainly would not cover projects at the other airports in
the Borough. He suggested that perhaps it would be appropriate for the committee to
discuss a budget for general aviation with the Borough. He stated that there was also
some misinformation in the committee's minutes. He pointed out that the $14,000
represented income from personal property at Municipal Airport. He stated that he was
on the committee that approached the Borough for that money to go to Municipal
Airport. He indicated that it would be appropriate that any money spent by the
Airport Advisory Committee Page 6 of 9 November 15, 1994
I
Borough should be allocated to not only State Airport but Municipal Airport as well.
He stated he was not aware that the Borough had taken a formal action to spend the
money at State Airport. He recommended at least half of the money should be
j appropriated to Municipal Airport. He stated it would be prudent for the Borough to
look at revenue in all the airports of the Borough to see what kind of economic impact
there was. He suggested that then the funds could be allocated wisely. He stated that
State Airport, Municipal Airport and the villages should all be considered. He
indicated that to his knowledge there weren't many planes in the villages that provided
income to the Borough. Mr. Anderson stated that Pat Carlson, Borough Assessor, had
done n h money a st ud o the o generated e erated from Municipal Ai
Y g
al
Y P
rp ort. He indicated that
$3,500 was from real ro ert and 10 300 was from aircraft Municipal
$ tat P P Y � Airport and
Lilly Lake.
Mr. Dorman stated that he thought for tax purposes that the downtown haul -out area
was considered part of Municipal Airport.
Mr. Anderson indicated that the downtown area was not considered part of Municipal
Airport. He stated that he thought the committee should proceed in getting an
assessment from the Borough Assessor to see what revenues were generated.
Mr. Stevens asked if Mr. Anderson wanted to make a motion.
Mr. Schleiffer stated he was not sure he understood. He stated that the committee had
discussed those issues and the committee had decided to put the money back into
general aviation but at State Airport. He stated that the committee needed to think hard
about how much money they would put into improvements at Municipal Airport. He
indicated that he did not think that an increase in volume was desirable there due to the
hazardous conditions in the development surrounding the airport. He stated that they
had discussed those issues in previous meetings. He asked Mr. Anderson where he was
asking the committee to spend the money.
Mr. Anderson made a motion to approach the Mayor and request the identification of
the contributed real and personal property taxes that were generated in the borough.
There was no second to the motion.
Mr. Anderson stated that in response to Mr. Schleiffer's question, Lilly Lake was the
only fresh water facility, and with respect to the hazardous conditions there, the Port &
Harbor Committee was trying to address those. He stated that they had gated off the
road by the dog shelter. He stated there was a fencing project in progress with the City
Engineer to eliminate pedestrian interference. He indicated that there were too many
users at Municipal Airport that weren't going to go to State Airport. He stated that
many people, including himself, had investments in the hangars at Municipal Airport.
Mr. Schleiffer stated that he didn't disagree with Mr. Anderson. He asked Mr.
Anderson how he proposed to split the money when the committee got the data from
the Assessor. He asked if Mr. Anderson was suggesting that those who paid in the
money would then get the money back.
Mr. Anderson agreed that was what he was suggesting and stated that was how it
worked in this country.
Airport Advisory Committee Page 7 of 9 November 15, 1994
I
i
Mr. Stevens suggested that in the interest of time, perhaps the committee members
could bring back a list of ideas as to where the money should be spent in the FY 96
budget.
Mr. Schleiffer stated that Mr. Anderson was obviously a member of both committees
and said he didn't know where the dividing line was as to who was worried about
which airport.
Mr. Machulsky stated that if they looked at the purpose of the committee, its intent was
to establish usership of State Airport. He stated that previously the group included
municipal users. He indicated that the committee had agreed that aviation should be all
inclusive and had written a letter to the City offering the committee's services to work
with the City on aviation issues in the community. He stated that the City had rejected
that offer so the committee had gone back to focusing on State Airport.
Mr. Anderson stated that he begged to differ as to the charge of the committee. He
stated that the committee's purpose was not just for State Airport but for aviation
within the entire borough. He stated that he understood that there was bickering
between the City and the Borough but pointed out that the committee was choosing to
focus on State Airport. He stated that the committee's charge included aviation in the
whole community.
Mr. Machulsky indicated that the group had gotten this far based on the
recommendations of the Airport Task Force and when it came time to move on
something it was State Airport. He stated that if Mr. Anderson was saying it was time
the City got together with the committee then perhaps that could be looked at for the
next agenda. He stated that it was time for the City to come back and indicated that
they were willing to work with the committee on community aviation issues.
Mr. Anderson asked for a clarification of the committee's charge.
Mr. Stevens indicated that the charge of the committee was as stated in the code
description of the Airport Advisory Committee. He stated that when the committee had
previously gone to the City offering its services, the City had told the committee that
Municipal Airport was the City's responsibility. He indicated that the committee was
not changing its mandate or charge but was narrowing its focus to State Airport. He
indicated that the City had since developed a subcommittee to look at Municipal
Airport. He stated that the committee was not choosing to focus only on State Airport
but pointed out that was the direction the committee had received. He stated that it
would be appropriate for the City to give the committee ideas as to where that money
should be spent.
Mr. Anderson stated it was frustrating that the committee had never previously
requested funds to fund their wish list until the City requested the funds and then all of
a sudden the committee wanted the money.
Mr. Machulsky made a motion to adjourn the meeting.
Mr. Schleiffer stated that he was inclined to second Mr. Anderson's earlier motion
regarding determining where the money came from. He stated that it might be good to
have some information to review at the next meeting. He said his personal opinion was
to have one group to look at aviation issues in the community.
I'f
i
Airport Advisory Committee Page 8 of 9 November 15, 1994
I
i
i
Mr. Anderson stated that his intention at the meeting was not to be divisive. He stated
that when money was being discussed it made things difficult. He indicated his intent
was to approach the issues before the FY 96 budget in order to make an informed
decision.
Mr. Dorman stated he did not believe anyone was mislead. He indicated that he used
both Municipal Airport and State Airport. He indicated that currently Municipal
Airport was not an option for him and he would like to see the money spent at State
Airport.
It was pointed out that there was a motion on the table to have the Borough Assessor
determine where taxes were collected. The motion carried.
VI. CONUdENTS
Mr. Machulsky asked if there could be a presentation or list of plans the City had for
Municipal Airport for discussion at the next meeting. He stated that part of the reason
the money was approved for State Airport was because there was no official plan in
place. He suggested that could be an agenda item for the next meeting.
Mr. Anderson stated that there was a plan in place that was in the process of being
completed. He stated he thought it would be appropriate to ask the City Manager for
that information rather than himself.
Mr. Schleiffer suggested that perhaps there could be a joint meeting between the
Borough and the City.
Mr. Machulsky stated that they could again put out the palm frond to the City.
Mr. Stevens stated that the committee could approach the City again.
The next meeting date was set for Wednesday, January 11, 1995 at 7:00 p.m.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 1:26 p.m.
Respectfully submitted by:
Rachael V. Miller Wayne evens; Cliairman
Secretary
Airport Advisory Committee Page 9 of 9 November 15, 1994