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10/22/2013 Regular Meeting KODIAK ISLAND BOROUGH PARKS & RECREATION COMMITTEE PUBLIC MEETING INTRODUCTION OF JACK& LEE LAKESTRAIL MANAGEMENT OBJECTIVES MINUTES October 22, 2013 7 p.m.in the KIB Assembly Chambers CALL TO ORDER CHAIR SALTONSTALL called to order the Parks & Recreation meeting at 7 p.m. in the Borough Assembly Chambers. ROLL CALL Committee members present were Pam Foreman, Jeff Huntley, Patrick Saltonstall, Rick Lindholm, Michael Marion, Helm Johnson, and Michael Scalzo. Absent was John Neff. Ex-officio member present was Alan Schmitt.Absent ex-officio members were Aaron Griffin,and Steve Doerksen. Community Development Department staff present was Bob Pederson and Sheila Smith. APPROVAL OF AGENDA COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN requested to add Trails Summit to New Business C. COMMITTEE MEMBER HUNTLEY MOVED to approve the agenda as amended. VOICE VOTE ON MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY APPROVAL OF MINUTES No minutes AUDIENCE COMMENTS AND APPEARANCE REQUESTS None OLD BUSINESS A) Introduction of Jack& Lee Lakes Trail Management Objectives CHAIR SALTONSTALL went to the podium to allow him to show the public the trail maps that TMO's were done for and the reasoning behind the Trail Management Objectives. He also explained that by having these TMO's it will allow them to apply for grants, and also the different ownerships of different sections of trails. He talked about maintenance, bridges,signage,and hardening of trails. In response to COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN questions regarding the memo's in the Schroeder emails and wants to make sure that these are read and addressed, Schroeder said he just forwarded them but his name is on the top. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN asked for clarification and wanted to make sure all the comments were addressed in the TMO's or that we have plans to address these issues, CHAIR SALTONSTALL replied we're going to discuss all the comments at the next meeting as a whole and come up with an overall statement to the borough like how we came up with Beaver Lake Loop and enforcement ideas for Russian Ridge. In response to COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN'S concern is what we were talking about before the meeting is that we had started talking about what we were going to do about the trucks and talking about blocking off that roadway but if we are indeed going to have the meeting in November we don't have another meeting to discuss this stuff, CHAIR SALTONSTALL said we are probably P&R Intro to lack Lee Lakes Minutes Page 1 of 8 October 22, 2013 going to have to wait on the Trail Summit and maybe have it in December. Public Comments were opened.Comments were given by: Andy Schroeder, Island Trails Network, congratulated the committee for another big step for TMO's because they are important and his question was what steps have been taken or what steps will be taken to secure access to State lands through Ouzinkie lands. He wants to ensure that access is granted. During discussion CHAIR SALTONSTALL said we have it in the TMO and that's what we will be discussing. We can recognize it as trails that we all like to use. COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION said there was talk about putting up boulders to block it and the assembly has pulled back from that but there are other ideas talked about at previous meetings that need to be addressed; we need to take that and the access through the native lands to give a presentation, a collective written statement to the Planning and Zoning which would go to the Assembly asking for access through the native lands and also talk about the different alternatives that could alleviate damage from recurring again at the Jack & Lee Lakes but it all comes together and need to put our arms around what we have learned, what are we going to do, and make that presentation as a collective summary. CHAIR SALTONSTALL feels it needs to be done before the Trail Summit and to include addressing the Ouzinkie and Leisnoi land as something that should be pursued. COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION suggested holding the Trail Summit at the usual time and use that for additional time for public comment for the access and how we mitigate problems from trucks from other damage. After the Trail Summit we could do the summary because we also talked about taking one funding item from each area and generate a funding request for a project which would facilitate what the community thought. CHAIR SALTONSTALL requested Jack &Lee Lakes be put on the Trail Summit agenda and present our TMO's as a packet and get input for our summary statement after the meeting. NEW BUSINESS A) Upcoming Trail Management Objectives Chosen CHAIR SALTONSTALL stated the area that was chosen and basically it's from Pillar Mountain by the windmills through Swampy Acres and it includes the top of Old Woman's Mountain and he showed the public on the map. Van Dyke will be taking the place of Daurio and he'll be using the data that exists on these trails and coming up with TMO's; we'll be getting public input from various users of how the area is being used and what they see as problems. We can then use our own knowledge and input to craft the TMO's. At the next meeting Van Dyke will have maps similar to these maps shown tonight showing who owns various sections of land, what known trails are there, and also what the zoning is for each area, current laws,and if there are any 17b easements. B) Grants&Other Funding Options CHAIR SALTONSTALL stated the funding is where the rubber meets the road. At the last assembly work session or regular meeting he presented some of our first TMO's,the Beaver Lake Loop and he felt the Assembly liked the idea but how do we see these things funded. He's very interested in public comments on funding ideas. In response to COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN'S inquiry aren't we right in the timeframe for ORTAB grants, right, CHAIR SALTONSTALL stated he thinks we missed it, posting was due October 15th. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN stated so we missed it this year. Andy Schroeder stated there's a deadline for public posting of October 15th and the deadline for the grant submission is November 15th. P&R Intro to Jack Lee Lakes Minutes Page 2 of 8 October 22, 2013 In response to COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN'S inquiry to staff of the borough hired a grant writer, correct, Pederson stated the borough has an employee in the Manager's Office that among other duties is grant writing. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN asked how do we go about, do we go through the Assembly, do we go through Planning & Zoning, how do we go about making sure this particular grant cycle gets on that person's radar for ORTAB, Pederson replied the appropriate way to do that would be for Parks & Rec, if that's the recommendation of the committee as a whole, to pass it on to P&Z and then P&Z if they communicate that through to the Manager and Assembly. That's up to the Manager's Office if the employee has time for that. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN MOVED that we recommend for future CIP Projects that come out of Parks & Rec relating to trails that the borough staff look at and apply for ORTAB Grants in the fall, so in this case it would be in the fall or October of 2014. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN stated the reason she made it so generic is because she thinks it's up to the committee to remember as we are doing the CIP List, etc. that this grant is coming up but we somehow need to put it officially on the radar. We should be applying for these grants every year because Kodiak gets squat for ORTAB Grants and the people that sit on the ORTAB Board are always looking for something to happen in Kodiak, it would be an easy win that we just need to make the effort to apply. CHAIR SALTONSTALL said when talking with the Assembly there was some discussion how the CIP List shouldn't be for playgrounds or trails; they felt it should be more for big ticket items. Consensus on the motion of getting this formalized; it's something as we get done with the TMO's we do our summarization of the outcome and right then and there we should address the grant writing for whatever projects we want and not just wait to meet the deadline. VOICE VOTE ON MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY ORTAB Discussed above. Public Comments were taken by: Andy Schroeder stated he had a request pertaining to ORTAB on behalf of Island Trails Network. We have never received a grant from ORTAB either in our six years and put together our first application in 2011 and before they made project selections the program was defended. We had written letters to D.C. trying to get RTP or ORTAB, the Recreational Trails Program, which is money from the gas tax for both motorized and non-motorized trails refunded; it has now been refunded and now we are now in a grant cycle. It's an inconvenient time for us because Island Trails Network does a lot of field work in the summer and this is the fall and we rarely see it coming. We did see it this year and looked at the Parks & Rec 's and the borough's progress on the Trails Plan and now there's some real meat on the bones with the Russian Ridge TMO's finished and with Jack & Lee Lakes next. Island Trails Network tries to see ourselves as an organization that's going to try to help the borough meet its goals for the trails system and to try to carry out the Trails Plan; we aren't decision makers, we are worker bees and now in the Trails Plan we have a road map. We have put together a draft grant application and we're asking for your support for a letter of support to start a signage project.We looked at the outcomes and recommendations of the Trails Plan; probably#1 is what you're doing right now, TMO's. Signage is right up there; both navigational and educational signage does a number of things. It makes the trail experience better for newcomers or people just discovering a new trail; there are 368 miles of trail and it's easy to get lost even if you are seasoned. They also raise the visibility of trails to non-trail users because they are more physical, palpable thing. Trails often times are in legal obscurity because they don't make the plat or as-built survey. Development and urbanization happens and the trails go away. We'd like to see the trails stay and P&R Intro to Jack Lee Lakes Minutes Page 3 of 8 October 22, 2013 we think your group would also so we thought maybe it's time for signage; maybe Phase 1 of what may become a longer term signage project. He found a lot of references in the Trails Plan; everything from the executive summary to the direct objectives for health and safety; there's an objective to decrease the likelihood of visitor's and resident's getting lost by providing adequate marking along popular routes and signage at junctions of other trails.Another purpose of signage is to prevent accidental trespass, which is why private land owner's including native corporations are likely to want to restrict access because accidental trespass is a liability concern. Island Trails Network is asking for in this grant is a little bit of hardware to generate our own signs locally using local native materials using Sitka Spruce on the local economy and work with all jurisdictions; public, private, native corporations, city, borough, State, and Federal to create a uniform system of signage. Also out of the trails plan is "a uniform system of signage", something that could be basic; wood, letters etched into wood but there are so many trails and such a need for this we think it could be done efficiently and locally in a way that would make the trail system seem like a whole rather than all these jurisdictions that we deal with. We'd like to integrate this with a pilot of 5 test cases or areas; some are borough, some are city, some private. The borough ones we request your support and to tell us what kind of signs you want; we think the borough is a beneficiary of this grant is Russian Ridge and if you think it's time also Jack & Lee Lakes. We could start with Russian Ridge where you already have adopted TMO's and signage is a part of those delineating the boundary between city and borough, navigational signage pointing to the different trailheads and raising the visibility of Russian Ridge so it may be there forever and perhaps more improvements later. The other test areas we are working with are Near Island trails working with the city; Termination Point, we have conversations with Leisnoi about partnering up on signage there; Antone Larsen Bay trail with Ouzinkie Native Corporation, and then again the ones we are asking the borough about are Russian Ridge and Jack & Lee Lakes. Grant money will be spent on the hardware which is a computerized wood router and a table with the 3 dimensional router etches the sign. They are quick and efficient and fairly cheap now, staff time to train us on that and be able to make the signs, and then we'll use volunteer labor to basically install the signs.There is a lot of cooperation with each landowner on each of these pilot projects that needs to be done. If we can get a letter of support from the borough within the next three weeks before November 15th it will strengthen our case to bring this to the community and we hope you think it is a good thing for the Trail System.Schroeder gave his materials to Smith to go into the record. In response to COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN'S inquiry you are talking about getting a standard sign that will look the same whether it's a city trail or borough trail, native corporation trail, etc. and she thinks it will be a wonderful thing if we can get all parties to agree for Kodiak to have standard signs on all trails but do you envision these signs to incorporate any kind of land ownership notice, Schroeder stated we'd like to pilot these projects in cooperation with each landowner so there's a capital inquisition of the sign making material and then a demonstration project, we figured four or five is appropriate; one with borough, one with native corporations which we already have existing relationships with native corporations. They have documents in place equivalent to TMO's hut maybe not as detailed but they have policies in place for how they want to manage their lands. We work with them to see where the overlap is, what message we both believe in that we both want to convey, and then a design specification for the sign and then the sign goes up. Sometimes there may be a lot of overlap and sometimes not depending on what their land management policy is, but a sign that says this is a public trail across private lands, contact Ouzinkie Native Corporation for land access off the trail would be appropriate and we'd work with them to engage in with all those entities, specifically we're asking for two levels of borough support; #lwe're asking for what kind of signs do you want on the trails that the borough is managing and #2 do you have a vote of confidence for Island Trails Network as an entity that can work with those other organizations to make the right decisions, to make the right sign, and to put them in the right P&R Intro to Jack Lee Lakes Minutes Page 4 of 8 October 22, 2013 place. In response to CHAIR SALTONSTALL'S question of would this hurt our applications for other things for ORTAB Grants, COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN responded it was her impression with the ORTAB Grants and the people she's known who've been on that committee in the past is the more cooperative packages you can put together, the more opportunity you have to get a grant, so to her if we can show ORTAB that Kodiak is a community that's working on multiple projects all the better.She thinks it will enhance things. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN stated she's not sure how to proceed on something like this. We can't speak to anything other than the trails that we've worked on and to answer Pederson's question, FOREMAN thinks as we did the TMO's for Russian Ridge and for Jack & Lee Lakes when there were areas that we were concerned about; the land ownership and we needed to establish an easement,when we talked about signage in there also we talked about the we needed to talk to the land owner's before any of that happened.What would this look like if we decide as a group that we do want to support this application, we would have to make a recommendation to Planning & Zoning that we think this is a good idea to have a letter of support and she requested Ex-officio Alan Schmitt's thoughts on this, we'd like to do a letter of support for this project and she assumed it would need the Assembly's blessing also. Pederson said he heard a timeframe of three weeks mentioned and that put's you right in the middle of AML and no one will be here that week. Ex-officio Alan Schmitt stated he's not aware of it being done before but he suggested to expedite the process that you put together the letter and get it to P&Z for a yea or nay. Pederson said he'll let Cassidy know it will be coming to see if we can get something on the Assembly. If you are going to do a letter and a pilot project maybe the best place to do a pilot project would be a trail system for signage where you have clear 17h easements if there's any portion of it on native land so you have something documented that's clear and legal and branch out from there. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN asked if there are 17b easements on either Jack & Lee Lakes or Russian Ridge, Schroeder said there are none. Schroeder said we thought 17b easements would be a good demonstration and test case so the Antone/Sheratine Trail is a 17b easement on Ouzinkie lands so we would like to use that one as one of our selected sites and we're going to work with Ouzinkie to try to sign that one. CHAIR SALTONSTALL likes the idea of a grant that makes signage possible on all of our trails,which will save the borough a lot of money in the future so we should be in support of this grant. Ex-officio Alan Schmitt stated Schroeder is willing to help draft the letter. In response to COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN'S question to Ex-officio Alan Schmitt, did the P&Z, Schmitt said they came to P&Z and we passed them on but he's not sure if they made it to the Assembly. Committee consensus on the letter of support. COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION MOVED to authorize the Parks & Rec Chairman to write and sign a letter of support for trails signage grants application that would be written by the Island Trails Network and submit that letter to the Planning&Zoning Commission for further approval. VOICE VOTE ON MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY Annual KIB Budget Process CHAIR SALTONSTALL said we will go into another way of getting these TMO's and etcetera funded P&R Intro to Jack Lee Lakes Minutes Page 5 of 8 October 22, 2013 which is through the annual KIB budget process. He thinks he mis-portrayed the Assembly when he was at that meeting. What they were saying was if tax payers don't want it if we aren't funding it ourselves the Capital Improvement Projects should be for big ticket things so we need to be aware of this as we move forward. During discussion COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN said her take on this after eight or 10 years is there is not a willingness to put Parks & Rec items in the budget so if that's the case and that's a change in thinking for the Assembly that's good but it's going to be on us, the committee to push those projects forward and say you need a playground in Chiniak or you need $60,000 for a piece of equipment wherever. We've always depended on these projects that's happening out of CIP so if there's a climate change just keep in mind the committee will really have to push the Assembly to make sure those things end up in the budget. She would also push to say there needs to be an increase in the Parks & Rec budget anyway. CHAIR SALTONSTALL should we just pick the best thing from every area that we do to put on the CIP List like we all liked Beaver Lake Loop, purchase easement,bridges, or do we wait until after we do a few areas to pick the best items. During discussion COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION stated he's thought our CIP Lists were always a watered down list since he's been on the committee for almost 2 years now. He's always been uncomfortable with having a list of 8 or 10 items because it doesn't seem like we as a committee have made a statement saying what we really think needs to be done for Parks & Rec.We've always just generated a list and it hasn't been a heavy focus and a push. He agrees with what COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN said about putting one item on the list and saying this is Parks & Rec's opinion and obviously we have to have a few meetings to come to consensus but for us to come forward and say this is what we think needs to be done this year. CHAIR SALTONSTALL said we can try to get one from every area or narrow it down. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN brought to Pederson's attention that Parks & Rec is always behind the eight ball when it comes to the budgeting process, Parks & Rec gets put behind the P&Z schedule and then we don't have time to think about making the OP List.As staff, if you can help us to stay on top of that budget calendar and CIP calendar it would be a huge help. COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION is right if we are going to narrow or focus it's going to take a while to come to consensus on what that should be. Pederson said at the last P&Z meeting it was brought up why Parks & Rec are advisory to P&Z, shouldn't they be advisory to the Assembly?The context of the conversation was about the CIP List. It was started late this year and you had some recommendations at the Assembly that was different than what came out of your meeting and was awkward. Would it be better if you made your recommendations directly to the Assembly? During discussion COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION said when he came on board he was surprised that some of the stuff we were sending to P&Z seemed like it wasn't something that P&Z really needed to weigh in on but he figured that was how the government structure was set. If it is something that is purely Parks & Rec he thinks it should go to the Assembly and let them weigh in. This item is to be placed on the next meeting agenda as well as the P&Z agenda for discussion. During discussion Ex-officio Alan Schmitt suggested the chair talk one on one to the new borough mayor to get his thoughts on what to do and how to approach it. TRAIL SUMMIT CHAIR SALTONSTALL said that COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION'S idea of having the Trail Summit at the next meeting and we'll try to write the summary for the Jack & Lee Lakes summary after the P&R Intro to Jack Lee Lakes Minutes Page 6 of 8 October 22,2013 meeting so we can incorporate the last comments. During discussion there was consensus to move the Trail Summit to November 12th. CHAIR SALTONSTALL, COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN, COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION, COMMITTEE MEMBER SCALZO said they can all be here for it. They requested maps from Van Dyke for the Trail Summit. Pederson said he won't be available for the 12th but staff will be there. CHAIR SALTONSTALL stated he'll work on the agenda with Smith. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN MOVED to hold the next Trail Summit on November 12, 2013 with the place to be determined. VOICE VOTE ON MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY CHAIR SALTONSTALL said we'll have the discussion of TMO's again, take comments on Jack & Lee Lakes,and then present and ask for data on the area between Pillar Mountain and Bells Flats. COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION brought up the meeting where there was discussion about possibly grading the access into Jack & Lee Lakes, using trail cameras, signage, and a number of alternatives he thinks those alternatives should also be put on the agenda and solicit any other public ideas on how to controlled access for trucks and should be an item under the Jack&Lee Lakes. Smith reminded the committee that standard practice is committee members email any agenda items they may have to the chair and he'll forward them to Smith to add to the agenda. CHAIR SALTONSTALL said it makes it a lot easier to get agenda items set at the meeting before than to have to scramble to figure it out later. In response to COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN'S inquiry since we've moved the Trail Summit to November 12th are still going to have the meeting on November 26th, CHAIR SALTONSTALL said he'd like to have the meeting because we are running behind on things that need to be taken care of. Members are to email Smith to let her know who will attend on November 26th. During discussion COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION said our focus on picking a target area, is that something that should be an agenda item we would discuss with the community because he doesn't know how we would present that but we want to come out of this thing identifying an area in Jack& Lee Lakes that we want to try to do something with. He doesn't want to lose that opportunity when we have the meeting. COMMITTEE MEMBER SCALZO said at the previous meeting we discussed the idea of finding that low hanging fruit and then taking advantage of taking something that would be easy to knock off the list so we can start to show people what we are working on and build up a head of steam from there.There was consensus on that SCALZO'S idea. In response to COMMITTEE MEMBER SCALZO'S question to Andy Schroeder, the relationships that you've established with these other land owners like Ouzinkie and Leisnoi, do you think it would be easy for you to discuss easements with them and bridge the gap between us and them to get some headway there, Schroeder replied he doesn't know but usually the scope of our conversations are limited to easements that already exist and there is a new CEO at Ouzinkie Native Corporation who Schroeder's yet to meet but as a former committee member he will advise him of the borough's intention to pursue these conversations and feel him out. Sometimes with new leadership you get new perspectives on land management so he'll try to lay the groundwork with a sense of cooperation and goodwill and show the things were doing both the borough and ITN for mutual respect for land owners and private property rights and still keeping it a high quality of recreational life. CHAIR SALTONSTALL said he would add something about the land swap that is no longer going to happen but if we would have had these two trail easements as identified things, in the future if there's a land swap and it's on the list we'll be able to say that's something we want, add that in P&R Intro to lack Lee Lakes Minutes Page 7 of 8 October 22,2013 there. When we were doing Mayflower Beach and all those land areas were going to get swapped for it and we didn't even think about trails.Creating these will help us in the future. Pederson said he'll talk to the manager about who should be involved and at what level about the easement discussions with the native corporations on behalf of the borough. COMMUNICATIONS None REPORTS Meeting Schedule: • November 12, 2013 Parks & Recreation Committee Trail Summit at 7 p.m. in the KIB Assembly Chambers • November 26, 2013 Parks & Recreation Committee meeting at 7 p.m. in the KIB School District Conference Room • December 24, 2013 Parks & Recreation Committee meeting at 7 p.m. in the KIB School District Conference Room CHAIR SALTONSTALL said the December 24th meeting will probably be cancelled. COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION MOVED to accept the reports as amended with the addition of the November Trail Summit and the deletion of the December 24th regular meeting. VOICE VOTE ON MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY AUDIENCE COMMENTS None COMMITTEE MEMBER'S COMMENTS Patrick Saltonstall said he's looking forward to the Trail Summit and they are getting better and better. ADJOURNMENT COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN MOVED to adjourn. CHAIR SALTONSTALL adjourned the meeting at 8:10 p.m. rKIDIAK IS AND BO OUCH P,R & •ECRE•ITtN CO `ii TEE By: 1fl4 . C Patrick '. tonstall,Char- ATTEST By:< 8 Sheila Smith Community Development Department APPROVED:January 28, 2014 P&R Intro to lack Lee Lakes Minutes Page 8 of 8 October 22, 2013