2006-05-31 Regular Meeting
Minutes
A.
Call to Order
Architectural/Engineering Review Board Meetin
and Public Presentation ~ ~ ~ fC n
31 May 2006 - 6:00pm ~ u; WI fE ~ i
KIB Assembly Chambers , I
AUG - 2 2006 I
The meeting was called to order by the Chair at 6:05 pm.
BOROUGH CLERK'S OFFICE
B. Roll Call
ARB Members present were Scott Arndt, Gregg Hacker, Charlie Jerling, Jay Johnston,
Reed Oswalt and Brent Watkins. Absent Member was Jerrol Friend. Representing the
KIB Engineering and Facilities Department were Bud Cassidy, Ken Smith and Sharon
Lea Adinolfi.
C. Approval of Agenda
It was moved and seconded to approve the Agenda. There was a unanimous affirmative
roll call vote.
D. Approval of Minutes
It was moved and seconded that the Minutes of 23 May 2006 be approved as submitted.
There was a unanimous affirmative voice vote.
E. Presentation of 35% Pool Schematic Design/Budget
S. Arndt turned the meeting over to Terry Hyer for presentation of the 35% schematic
design and 35% cost estimate fo; the new pool. Terry introduced the other members of
his team: Jae Shin, ECI/Hyer, Project Manager and Project Architect, Boyd
Morgenthaler, Principal Mechanical Engineer and Mark Langberg, Senior Mechanical
Engineer, both of AMC Engineers.
T. Hyer explained the steps in the process [for the design] beginning with a preliminary
schematic design and initial cost estimates. The next set of drawings will become more
defined and costs will be refined. Construction documents would then be generated -
these are drawings that could be used by a contractor for bidding purposes. T. Hyer
turned the presentation over to j ae Shin.
J. Shin began by going through the amenities of the pool - the Program Summary. He
reviewed the Site Plan, the main level floor plan, aerial views of the pool, outside
materials, natatorium wall assembly and the details of the interior of the building.
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The next set of slides on his power point presentation showed the different types of pool
construction - concrete, both cast in place and pneumatically applied, and stainless steel
panels covered with PVC lining and mounted to a concrete foundation and side walls.
B. Morgenthaler reviewed briefly the various systems included in the design.
J. Shin described various types of entries into a pool- "ramping in" or stairs.
T. Hyer continued - noting that although we are facing unique economic situations, the
initial concept ofthis pool has been to "design to the program". What is being submitted
is designed to be an attractive facility, durable, form coupled with function - a pragmatic
approach. He indicated that the next step, given the economics - significant escalation -
would be to identify potential funding sources.
F. Public Hearing
Comment re a concrete pool - it's a sure thing.
Question re depth of teaching pool - if it is too shallow the area is not useful for teaching,
but can't be too deep for beginning swimmers.
It was suggested that a ramp instead of stairs be used for pool entry. Jim Willis of the CG
pool said that no one uses the ramp at the CG pool and that -0- depth is a waste of space -
1 112' - 3' is a good entry depth range.
D. Home suggested that some sort of mechanism is needed for handicapped entry if there
is no ramp - possibly there is funding for pool apparatus to assist wheelchair bound
swimmers. He also commented on the spectator seating - he said you cannot have
[potentially] 250 people on the deck. He suggested reworking the spectator seating.
T. Hyer suggested the possibility of "lifting" the bleachers and questioned the need for
250 seats.
It was suggested that the bleachers did not need to run to the end of the pool area - down
past the deep/diving board end - visibility wouldn't be good and it was not a good use of
space.
J. Shin said there are various types of retractable bleachers - some with guards along the
front row and the team would investigate.
D. Home reiterated that spectators should not be on the deck.
P. Branson of the Senior Center strongly emphasized the need for safety and
accessibility. She also commented on the use of lifts - it is very difficult for one person
to move a swimmer from a wheel chair onto a lift.
Question re the savings gained by removing public bathrooms and family changing
rooms. Mr. Hyer stated that the savings would not be significant.
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Mayor Selby complimented Terry Hyer and his team on the design effort thus far. He
encouraged the ARB to focus on the technicalities and to continue working on refining
the numbers. He said that he is seeing $3.6M of "fuzzy" costs - wants to see more solid
numbers so that the Assembly knows what is needed when investigating additional
funding.
Sue Jeffrey said that she would not like to see any of the windows removed [to cut cost].
P. Branson encouraged the group to not cut back, to go after the required funding and
suggested the Rassmussen Foundation as a possible source. She noted that the
Foundation would look at the voter approved Bond as a commitment by the community
to this Project.
A comment was made by one of the audience members that, as a taxpayer, they would
prefer a concrete pool and did not want another "box".
The Chair closed Public Hearing. He said that he would like to go back to the beginning
of the Presentation and go through some of the technical aspects. He questioned the
height of the ceiling - the response was that it is a State mandated spec - and he went
onto state that he was not in favor of any other kind of pool except concrete.
T. Hyer responded saying that the pool consultant prefers concrete, but being driven by
budget concerns, the stainless steel pool presented an opportunity for cost savings.
J. Johnston said that he was in favor of a concrete pool. He would like the design to stay
based on the Program. He would like to see the cost figures fine tuned and then let the
Assembly deal with the financing issues.
R. Oswalt noted that he was uncomfortable with electrolysis and he thought if the PVC
liner [over the stainless steel panels] was used we would be patching up holes in 4-5
years.
G. Hacker was interested in knowing what kind of gutter system was available with a
concrete pool.
C. Jerling suggested a change in the configuration - placing spectators at a mezzanine
level.
J. Shin said that a mezzanine level had been considered, but with that arrangement there
then would have to be two sets of stairs and an elevator [to satisfy code].
R. Oswalt questioned using a crown roof.
J. Shin responded: the roof is designed with a gradual slope. This kind of a slope allows
for energy efficiency and also is a safety feature.
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S. Arndt entertained a motion for a cast in place concrete pool. B. Watkins made the
motion and it was seconded by R. Oswalt. B. Morgenthaler said that he felt it should be
concrete but not necessarily CIP - could be shot rocked.
J. Johnston asked ifthe vote could be simply on a concrete pool and not more particularly
specified at this point.
There was a roll call vote on a concrete pool being recommended. The roll call vote was
unammous.
The Chair questioned the seIsmIC factor of the building - was the building being
considered essential.
K. Smith noted the different factors involved in selecting a seismic level - 1.25 [A-4]
would be appropriate for this kind of building. 1.50 is used for buildings such as
hospitals, fire departments, police departments.
S. Arndt questioned gutter drain systems.
J. Johnston said that a rollout gutter system is what is preferred for competitive swimmers
- that the design in place - 5"high - less than typical for competitive swimmers - is a
good compromise for both competitive and recreational swimmers.
B. Watkins questioned the dimension [height] on the rollout gutter and asked if there was
a gutter system made with a removable edge - his concern is that the pool be designed for
all groups and not just for a select group.
G. Hacker approved of a rollout gutter system.
T. Hyer noted that a level gutter system allows a lot of water to get on the deck.
A motion was made by R. Oswalt and seconded by B. Watkins to use a rollout gutter
system, but with more details to follow [further research by design team]. There was a
unanimous affirmative voice vote.
S. Arndt questioned the wall assembly shown at the beginning of the Presentation. He
felt it was too labor intensive and suggested foam panels.
J. Shin said metal sandwiched foam wall systems tended to fail at certain points. T. Hyer
spoke to the vulnerability of other systems. j. Shin said that pre engineered composite
panels had been priced and the shipping costs were incredible. K. Smith said that the
handling of those kinds of panels was a problem - damage was to be expected in shipping
and handling so that necessitated ordering an extra number of panels to make sure there
were enough to do the job.
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T. Hyer spoke to the thermal issue of other wall systems - other than the one designed.
J. Shin added that an additional plus with the system designed was that plumbers and
electricians could work simultaneously - while this system was being installed.
S. Arndt said that he did not like cedar on the inside.
J. Shin said that the wood added warmth and texture, that cedar is a common application
and would not be dark because the pool will have a lot of light coming in. There is no
maintenance for this material and a natural finish could be used - the wood would fade to
a lighter color. T. Hyer noted that the team could look for other materials. He also noted
that the cedar will add an acoustical baffle for the interior.
R. Oswalt questioned the use of bleached cedar.
J. Shin said that the cedar could be pretreated - stained grey.
J. Johnston said he thought the cedar walls would become stained and that he was not
sold on this material being a good long term solution.
S. Arndt said that he would be interested in other options - something durable that would
wear well and require low maintenance.
B. Watkins questioned the heating duct system. Asked if the ducts could tie into a
durable panel and cover the lower 4' of wall below the cedar.
B. Morgenthaler didn't know of such a product - it might have to be architecturally
fabricated. He noted that this was only the preliminary 35% schematic design phase - the
next phase is where getting more into the details occurs.
There was a 10 minute break.
The Chair reconvened the meeting at 9:30 pm.
S. Arndt questioned the hardiplank exterior. He said that at Northstar Elementary where
this material has been used there were problems with paint peeling and the material
losing its integrity. He would encourage other options.
S. Arndt went on to talk about the list of reductions/changes that had been presented
earlier - in an effort to reduce the cost - and that he did not want to see any reductions -
they would change the whole proglallllllatic thrust of the Project. He wanted to stick with
what we have [in the Program Summary].
Discussion followed with R. Oswalt agreeing with S. Arndt's position. J. Johnston agreed
- did not want to reduce - actually maybe widen the building - rework the spectator area.
He does not want spectators on the deck. Suggests shortening the bleacher arrangement -
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and the seating at the end of the building is not viable. He said that it is important to keep
the spectators off the deck and design to allow the coaches to be able to move up and
down both sides of the pool.
S. Arndt questioned what was separating the lanes between the main part of the pool and
the teaching pool. Response: stem wall. Perhaps a bridge could be added.
R. Oswalt wants the building to be 10' wider - thought that a lot could be gained by that
enlargement - a larger wall between the two pool areas, assist the spectator issue and
allow more room in the entranceway.
T. Hyer questioned how adding to the square footage ofthe building would fit into the Ed
Specs.
There followed discussion re placement of bleachers and shallow pool access and depth-
T. Hyer to speak w/pool consultants on these issues.
Discussion re filtration systems. J. Johnston suggested that the pressure system w/sand
tanks, as is in the existing pool, be used.
Discussion re water treatment. R. Oswalt suggested UV and saline. B. Morgenthaler
said that the UV system would reduce chlorine by 80%. The electricity cost is unknown
but he will check on that. J. Johnston would like to know the operating costs.
The consensus of the Board was in favor of the UV system.
R. Oswalt said he wanted a saline system installed in the existing pool and then moved to
the new pool when constructed. B. Morgenthaler said he was in agreement with the
saline system but would like to gather more information.
Discussion re ventilation system. B. Morgenthaler explained the heating/ventilating
system. J. Johnston asked if heat recovery was included in the system and B.
Morgenthaler answered no - and that this was an issue he would like to take a hard look
at.
J. Johnston questioned the efficiency and reliability of the new building being tied into
the boiler system at the high school. B. Morgenthaler affirmed the existing system.
S. Arndt said he wanted to see a cost analysis between trying into the existing boiler
system and putting a new boiler system in the new stand alone building.
At 9:45 pm B. Morgenthaler and M. Langberg left the meeting to return to Anchorage.
S. Arndt began a review ofthe proposed reductions offered in the presentation.
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All of the reduction options were negated by the Chair w/agreement from the Members.
The only exception had to do with parking lot costs and that information [from the
Community Development Department] has not yet been received.
S. Arndt said that he would like the team to run an operations budget - electricity, fuel,
etc.
T. Hyer said that he appreciated the challenge and suggested that the team keep going -
to design drawings and the next level of cost estimate.
S. Arndt said that he wanted updated costs and that he was still not happy with the site.
J. Shin questioned if what was discussed and agreed to at this meeting be included in the
next design schematics and cost estimates. S. Arndt responded yes.
G. Hacker said that information regarding the increase in square footage and how it fits
into the Ed Specs needs to be looked at.
J. Johnston asked where the architects were in terms of their scope of work. T. Hyer
noted that they had completed their scope with the presentation of the 35% schematic
design and 35% cost estimate, but he was willing to continue. He said that it would cost
between $5000-7000 to have another cost estimate prepared based on the changes from
this meeting.
G. Recommendation
Skipped.
H. Board Comments
B. Watkins. None
J. Johnston. Noted that although costs had been added, he felt the program had been
improved and that it is important to continue to stick with the program.
C. Jerling. He complimented the design team on their efforts and felt they had gone well
beyond the 35% level. He urged the project forward.
G. Hacker. He agreed with J. Johnston's comments.
R. Oswalt. He agreed with J. Johnston's comments.
S. Arndt. Said that we are going to live with this building for 50-60 years and we want to
do it right or not do it at all. Emphasis needs to be on the program, longevity and
suitability for all the community.
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I. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 9:32 pm.
Sharon Lea A III , Project Assistant
KIB Engineering/Facilities Dept.
5~~~..A/?#-
Scott Arndt, Chair
Architectural/Engineering Review Board
Cy placed in Pool File
Date: ~ ~6
{/
Date: 2? - 1- ;2.00,6
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