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2005-07-12 Regular Meeting KODIAK ISLAND BOROUGH PARKS & RECREATION COMMITTEE REGULAR MEETING- JULY 12, 2005 MINUTES ~ ~ O~T : 4U 2:5 ~ ~ CALL TO ORDER BOROUGH CLERK'S OFFICE The regular meeting of the Parks & Recreation Committee was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by CHAIR PAM FOREMAN on July 12, 2005 in the Borough Conference Room. ROLL CALL Committee Members Present Absent Excused Others Present Hans Tschersich X Ray Jackson Heather Turner X Jeff Huntley LATE Kevin Foster LATE Mike Sirofchuck X Murphy Forner X Pam Foreman-Chair X Patrick Saltonstall X Robert Greene X Mary Myers Ogle X Wayne Biessel X Ian Fulp X Betty Odell X A quorum was established. APPROVAL OF AGENDA COMMITTEE MEMBER PATRICK SALTONSTALL MOVED TO APPROVE the agenda as presented. The motion was SECONDED by COMMITTEE MEMBER HANS TSCHERSICH, and was CARRIED by unanimous voice vote. JEFF HUNTLEY AND KEVIN FOSTER JOINED THE MEETING. MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING COMMITTEE MEMBER PATRICK SALTONSTALL MOTIONED TO APPROVE AS AMENDED the minutes for May 24t11, June 14th, and June 28th. COMMITTEE MEMBER HANS TSCHERSICH SECONDED the motion, and it was CARRIED by unanimous voice vote. P & R Committee Minutes Page 1 of 12 July 12, 2005 AUDIENCE COMMENTS AND APPEARANCE REQUESTS Ray Jackson stated he was called by the Borough because they were looking for some grants for trail maintenance. He stated that Sam Christianson would like to develop another trail in the mountains to go around Summit Lake, and he thinks this grant money would be more suitable for getting up to the project site. Mr. Jackson stated that he thinks the first part of the trail should be worked on first before the second part of the trail. Pam Foreman stated that the one problem with this grant is that the Feds wouldn't allow enough administrative money for anyone in the state to take this project on. Finally, they will allow administrative money to come out of the $14 million fund. The committee would like to get a grant application that covered as many of the different types of trails as possible. The Abercrombie Bike Trail connection, some of the repairs and work on the Island Lake Trail, and an A TV Trail are some of the trails that we can apply for grants for. There are three sections to the grant that is being put together, Island Lake section, the park section, and the A TV section. Hans Tschersich stated that Linda Himelbloom had contacted him twice. The first being, she outlined three projects, the second she requested the committee to write letters of recommendation of why we like the biking trail, the hiking trail, or which ever trail they like, with a deadline of July 20th. Ray Jackson inquired if something is put into the grant regarding a trail, does it have to be the whole trail. Pam Foreman stated it has to be specific of what is going to be done to the trial. Mary Myers Ogle stated it was her understanding that the project that was being worked on now was Lake Miam. Pam Foreman clarified that it is the Lake Miam trail because Lake Miam is the ending destination, which Summit Lake is on the way to Lake Miam. With the committee's permission, Pam would like to talk with Linda Himelbloom (who is putting a section of the grant together) to find out how specific she feels they need to be with this section, and talk to Sam Christianson and mention that Ray Jackson was at the meeting. Kevin Foster commented that if we do a specific grant for the new trail and the trail getting to it is so tore up that no one can get to it, but those of us that can get to it then we will have our own trail back again. Mary Ogle stated she thought this was for repairs to existing trails. Pam Foreman stated that was what she thought too. P & R Committee Minutes Page 2 of 12 July 12, 2005 Kevin Foster stated there are two different things going on here: there are federal and state. The first is Federal easement and what they have been doing on the Lake Miam estate, and so you are narrowly defined on the Federal easement, 25 feet. Jeff Huntley stated he doesn't think it has actually been defined, which 25 feet. Pam Foreman stated the trail has moved over the years and there's been discussion not only in that section of easement but even in Lake Miam and Summit. Where is that legal easement and where should it be? Maybe we should go back to the Feds and put it in a place where it actually exists. The first part of the trail may be a legal mess, dealing with where is the legal easement. Jeff Huntley stated it's been improved and moved to higher ground so it doesn't tear up the soft stuff too bad and he said he went down the other day and it has been rerouted to areas that don't get impacted too badly. He hesitate to go to the Feds unless we have to because there are a few places we could move it to and we could say "Now, this is where we want it." Pam Foreman stated that if the Lesnoi thing ever gets resolved it is going to force the issue of where the easement is. The easement was established so that what Lesnoi does with the land the easement still has to continue to exist. What does everyone want me to do? Do you want me to talk to Sam or I could suggest they focus on the bottom of the trail. Jeff Huntley stated the bottom of the trail was worse for a while until Ray moved some of the trail up onto harder ground beyond the marshes and swamps. If we said this is where we want it and the Feds marked it off to the 25 foot mark. Pam Foreman asked if we could generalize this? Can we make this general enough that we could have this discussion later and more public. Mary Ogle stated that we need to go out and get a closer look at it. Jeff Huntley said he doesn't see why we couldn't say what we want because it is a seven mile trail. We can't say we want this grant for improvement of this trail, I don't think that is what they are looking for. Mary Ogle inquired of where the trail starts from the main road. Jeff Huntley stated it starts just before the bridge at the Olds River. Pam Foreman said she will find out if they can keep it general. P & R Committee Minutes Page 3 of 12 July 12, 2005 OLD BUSINESS A. Open Space Ordinance - Mary Ogle stated she has drafted an ordinance that she hasn't shown anyone yet. She went on to say that the problem is bigger issue than the one code change, writing the code change isn't a problem. The problem is the Borough isn't set up to handle it. Ifwe are trying to get park land from developers, Mary has set it up where we can get it but within the ordinance they set up an account and hold on to it until there is enough money to purchase the land. The other issue is there isn't anyone to maintain the parks. The Borough has one maintenance person for the buildings and takes care of the parks. It would be a disservice to create these parks and they end up becoming nuisances because from my perception of the complaints that I have received the parks we have now aren't being cared for properly. There has been a lot of discussion between the Assembly and Planning & Zoning Commission about Borough lands and disposing of them because they have become nuisances. I do think it can be done, but I think it is a bigger issue so I am investigating to see if maybe the city would be interested in entering into some kind of inter-local agreement to have their parks department be the maintenance for our parks and we would pay them. Looking at service districts like they are road service districts, doing a park service district so that each group of people within said district can decide what type of facility they want. A new subdivision with young kids may want full playground equipment, if it is older and established they may just want open space. I am just trying to look at different options to fund it or maintenance at least. Pam Foreman stated that a new department can be created, not a department for people, create a new revenue section which is a simple solution. Patrick Saltonstall recommended using that money to maintain the parks rather from land sales initially until you get to a certain level. Create an infrastructure. Pam Foreman stated that maybe we should start from scratch. Maybe scratch is until we reach a pod of money, and those dollars would be for simple maintenance issues. Kevin Foster commented that just getting the city involved, and then making an agreement to pay them to maintain the parks. Ifwe can afford to pay them to maintain them, we can afford to hire someone else to maintain the parks. P & R Committee Minutes Page 4 of 12 July 12, 2005 Heather Turner stated that there is more overhead if we hired someone, insurance, etc. Basically, we would be contracting it out. We would go bankrupt that way. Kevin Foster stated that if we can't afford it, let's just give it all to the City then, since that's where this is going. Ifwe can't handle this. Pam Foreman stated that this is what they are talking about. Kevin stated that yes, that is what they want. They have been pushing this for a long time and if this is one of the progressive steps to give all control to the City to then No, I am not for this. That is not the direction he will go with his vote. Pam Foreman explained that you save money by contracting out for someone's service and I don't think it is selling out. We would be hiring the City for maintaining the parks. Jeff Huntley stated that is what we did with White Sands Beach and the State had a contract for maintaining that, but the Borough didn't feel that it worked out because there is no longer in affect. Is the City better at it than the State? Patrick Saltonstall stated that it's different. He feels the Borough thought it was too expensive to hire the State Parks. The City would be a different kind of park. The Borough goes to remote areas and the City goes to more playgrounds. Jeff Huntley stated the City already does that. Pam Foreman stated that technically it will be out of city limits, but we could still sub-contract out with them. Heather Turner stated that we could pick and choose what we want done. Patrick Saltonstall reminded everyone of the parks they walked around, like the one on Otmeloi. They were tearing it down. Remember the one by the helicopter pad? Those are the ones the City could do a pretty good job on. Pam Foreman stated that there is a part of her that feels that although we don't have all the answers and have it perfectly designed, at some point we need to bring the concept forward, we need to say to the Borough, "Look, you have agreed to do this and you have been doing this and developing these parks." Now let's figure a way to manage these parks. Even if we have to sub-contract it out to someone to maintain the parks. She went on P & R Committee Minutes Page 5 of 12 July 12, 2005 to say she would like to see the committee move forward on an ordinance concept. The committee believes it is an important concept. Mary Ogle stated that she is working on drafting different options. Patrick Saltonstall commented that he likes the idea of the service districts. Pam Foreman stated that she hopes the Borough continues to move forward with the Comprehensive Plan with the shift of power in the Assembly she's not sure it is still a priority. However, ifthey continue to move towards that she feels that it is important to have this idea on the table for discussion during the Comprehensive Plan process. It is the perfect time to start talking about this. Mary Ogle stated she is anticipating bringing something to the next meeting. Pam Foreman said one thing she would like to see come out ofthe Comprehensive Plan process is the concept of a land trust that can be developed. It is a land trust that can work with all the private property owners including the Borough and the City, etc. Mary Ogle was surprised there wasn't one already and stated they had a huge one in Indiana. Pam Foreman said that a land trust would be sitting right in the middle of the conversation saying that if you want to swap that I've got a private native corporation that's willing to give you this land to do this. There is no one negotiating that kind of stuff right now. Weare going to see land go just like this. The Borough Assembly is thinking of doing land sales right before the Comprehensive Plan. That just makes no sense to me. B. Otmeloi/North Star - Mary stated that it still is on all official lists. DOT, State, Federal and is still a recognized project. We should all have the realization that if the money runs out something is going to get dropped. Patrick Saltonstall would like to make sure they stay behind their projects. Don't just think it's going to get done because the people who voice their concerns, Anchorage, they're going to get it before we do. That's where T odd Van Hove comes in, we just have to make sure we stay in touch with him. P & R Committee Minutes Page 6 of 12 July 12, 2005 NEW BUSINESS A. Alaska Trail Initiative Grant - The committee decided to include this discussion in the Audience Comments and Appearance Requests discussion. B. Alaska Trail Building Schools - Mary Ogle talked about the Alaska Trail Building School and how they are offering different types of seminars, but is coming up next week. She is anticipating that they do something like this again next year. Pam Foreman inquired if the Borough Parks & Recreation Committee can become a member of Alaska Trails.org. We should be a member of the State Trails Organization since we get all their e-mails and all their information. Wouldn't it be great if we could find some Eagle Scouts or some older kids that are looking for some projects to do to go with an adult or two to some of these trail building schools. It would be a great skill to teach to some of these kids and adults. C. Recommendations to Assembly regarding Borough land disposal and tax foreclosure lands and public interest (parks and recreation purposes) - Mary stated this is something that was just finished drafting for your perusal. Preliminarily, the Borough is anticipating having some land disposal/tax foreclosure sales on September 22nd. We had a master list of potential lands for disposal that included twenty-two (22) sites. Ofthose twenty-two sites she looked at them with Bob Scholze (Borough Assessor) and found four (4) that are ready to go, they don't need subdivisions, rezones, or anything like that. The four include Russian Creek Subdivision located on Noch Drive, zoned R-1, and a five (5) acre tract. She had planned on having maps but wasn't able to get them together in time. Neither of the two (2) neighbors are interested in buying it at this time. The second is just a lot in Chiniak, Alaska Subdivision that has been up for sale twice but didn't sell. It is 2.32 acres. The third is Lot 4 in Selief Estates, lf4 acre and vacant. The fourth one is way out by Dry Spruce Bay across from Onion Bay. Pam Foreman asked if the SeliefLane one, is that in the most current developments down towards Von Scheele? Mary Ogle assured her it is down on the far end, down by Pillar Mountain. Department heads will review this at our weekly meeting on Friday and then take it to the Assembly on their August 4th meeting. Part of what Mary recommended and Rick Gifford seemed to agree, is that she is going to set up some kind of protocol for all the land disposal, trying to get lands ready and have things analyzed so there's not at the last minutes look at lands for sale and some has no infra-structure, some need rezoning, some P & R Committee Minutes Page 7 of 12 July 12, 2005 need sub-dividing. So she would like to look at Borough lands twice a year and designating ones that everyone is in agreement with and would be appropriate for development and take it to Planning & Zoning every September and have them rezoned or subdivided according to the new plan. There was a hesitation that she sensed from the Assembly and the Planning & Zoning Commission to just sell property as is because of fear of what the private sector will do with them because there is an underlying feeling that we have no Comp Plan. Mary hopes that once the new Comprehensive Plan is adopted it will alleviate those concerns. Pam Foreman stated that she thinks some of the concerns have to do with the Comp Plan in place. If you look at our zoning codes, and you look at the zoning that exists on some lots, certain activities are allowed. For example, Mike Anderson's quarry across from Bayside Fire Hall, next to an established residence that he just dug down into the ground. Mary Ogle stated he's just grading it getting ready for building. Pam Foreman is hoping what comes out of the Comp Plan maybe a re- look at the zoning because our zoning codes haven't been done in twenty (20) years. Mary Ogle stated that the Comp Plan will come next, then re-do the zoning code, then the sub-division code. Pam Foreman likes the idea of a twice a year Borough land sale because it allows us the opportunity as the Parks & Recreation Committee to be a part of the process. We can make recommendations to Planning & Zoning. COMMUNICATIONS A. Memo dated June 16,2005 from Mary Myers Ogle, Community Development Director to Rick Gifford, Borough Manager regarding the Parks & Recreation Committee and Borough Lands - Mary Ogle said it is in regards to Parks & Recreation Committee commenting on the land sale. B. Memo date June 27,2005 from Rick Gifford, Borough Manager to Mary Myers Ogle, Community Development Director regarding the Parks & Recreation Committee and Borough Lands - Mary Ogle stated that Rick Gifford deemed it appropriate to have tax-foreclosed and disposed lands reviewed by the Parks & Recreation and make recommendations to the Planning & Zoning Commission. C. Chiniak newsletter sent from KIB Community Development staff regarding community and comprehensive planning efforts in the future - Mary Ogle explained that she drafted this newsletter and sent it to all P & R Committee Minutes Page 8 of 12 July 12, 2005 Chiniak residents saying we are going to take all information gathered so far, as far as your goals and objectives and fuse them in into the Comprehensive Plan that will begin this fall. D. Letter from Mary Myers Ogle, Community Development Director to Lisa Holzapfel at Rivers, Trails & Conservation Assistance Programs requesting continued involvement for FY '06 - Mary Ogle explained she is asking for continued assistance and just received a call from Lisa saying yes to continue the assistance. Mary Ogle stated we are having a group work session with the Assembly and P&Z on July 28th at 7:30 and you are all invited. She also informed the Parks & Recreation Committee that we were awarded a grant to do the Comprehensive Plan and the Borough budgeted the match. She also told the group that there will be a joint P&Z and Assembly meeting in August to talk about the Comprehensive Plan. Pam Foreman asked Mary Ogle if she has the outline that Parks & Rec put together for PROST (Parks & Rec Open Space Trails) because it can be used in the comp plan. Mary Ogle stated that the trails and parks will be a part of the plan, and hopefully Lisa will be of assistance with that as well. Pam Foreman asked the committee if they would be able to attend the meeting on July 28th. Mary Myers Ogle stated that she thinks it will be at 7:30 but she will verify it and e-mail everyone. MEETING SCHEDULE July 26,2005 Regular Meeting at 7:00 pm in the KIB Conference Room. July 28, 200t Joint P&Z - Assembly Meeting at 7:30 pm in the KIB Conference Room. August 9,2005 Regular Meeting at 7:00 pm in the KIB Conference Room. AUDIENCE COMMENTS There were no audience comments. COMMITTEE MEMBERS' COMMENTS Heather Turner stated she is just happy to be here. P & R Committee Minutes Page 9 of 12 July 12, 2005 Hans inquired about the tour of the parks and facilities that had been discussed previously. The end of the summer would be a nice time to schedule it. Pam Foreman stated that the committee can do that. Would it be better to schedule that in the July meeting or do you want to look at doing it in August. We could do a road trip as a separate meeting. Mary Ogle stated that they could do it as a regular meeting, but they can't make any decisions. Pam asked if the group wants to replace one of the meetings in August with a road trip. There may be some things come out of the July 28th meeting for us to do. Mary Ogle inquired what the tour entails. Hans Tschersich stated that a few years ago they looked at parks and plans and what can be done, like taking inventory to know where all these are and what needs to be done. Pam Foreman suggested that Bud attend the tour also. What is a good day of the week to do this or replace one of the August meetings? What about August 23rd? Everyone agreed with August 23rd, so that will be the date of our tour. Patrick Saltonstall suggested we tour all the borough parks in the city, like Otmeloi, the sewer treatment plant park, and the one with the playground in Mike Anderson's development. Pam Foreman asked if they did the Bells Flats parks. Jeff Huntley thinks we do need to do Bells Flats parks. Mary Ogle inquired if this is just parks or is it trails also. Pam Foreman said no, it's just parks. Patrick Saltonstall thinks they should stop and check out Boy Scout Lake. Pam Foreman stated that one thing that might help and would make since to stop and look at on this tour that might have park potential or open space potential. Hans stated that they can take an inventory and hand out a list of what was previewed. Pam stated that there was a detailed tour done before and took photographs of the trails. P & R Committee Minutes Page 100f12 July 12, 2005 Mary Ogle stated it was done in 2002 or 2003. Pam Foreman stated that we have identified doing this in August or September because of getting things back in the capital budget process. Mary Ogle stated that she has August 1 st as the starting date for doing the capital budget for entire borough. Pam Foreman asked the group if they could start at 6:00 or 6:30. Mary Ogle feels the earlier the better. Pam Foreman verified that they will meet at 6:00 pm for the tour of the parks. Hans Tschersich inquired if Rob was the person to ask ifthere would be more guardrail put up on the way to White Sands. Rob Greene said there won't be any more guardrail put up out there, but they need to go out and look. Pam and Rob have talked about some of the pullouts that they want opened up. There are a couple pullouts that they are going to open up anyway. They didn't care for how the engineer put the guardrails in. The end treatments are about three thousand dollars, and so to save money the engineer put the rail up and blocked off the pullouts. Pam Foreman stated that she drove the Chiniak Highway and noticed there is a lot of parking space on both sides of the Olds River, and she hopes it will still be there when they are finished paving. Rob Greene stated that was an actual improvement that was paid for. It's not paved now, just stripped out, and he is assuming that they are going to go behind like they did when they did the north end. He is going to start working with Sam on doing the extras like when they did Mill Bay we conned them into paving the Mill Bay pullout because there are a lot of people who use it. Hans stated we recently drove out the road to Chiniak and noticed there are no provisions for bikes or pedestrians and has really become a danger. Rob stated that we will do better especially at White Sands because the decking from 15 out with the Corp of Engineers paved it's straight up and down. It's terrible, I'm sure everyone will agree. We had no say. That was a Corp of Engineers project. Patrick Saltonstall added that they used that old bad asphalt. P & R Committee Minutes Page 11 of 12 July 12, 2005 Pam stated that Rob had come in to her office and had brought all his plans, so they sat down and looked at the White Sands section and the Monashka section. After they had talked about it she felt much better. ADJOURNMENT CHAIR FOREMAN requested a motion to adjourn. COMMITTEE MEMBER PATRICK SAL TONST ALL MOVED TO ADJOURN the regular meeting. The motion was SECONDED by COMMITTEE MEMBER KEVIN FOSTER, AND CARRIED by unanimous voice vote. The meeting adjourned at 8:30p.m. KODIAK ISLAND BOROUGH PARKS & RECREATION COMMITTEE BL/ - ATTEST By: ,'S),lle~~~rYI<t![) Sheila Smith, Secretary Community Development Department DATE APPROVED: July 26,2005 P & R Committee Minutes Page 12 of 12 July 12, 2005