2002-12-18 Regular Meeting KODIAK ISLAND BOROUGH
PLANNINGSSI
REGULAR.MEETING DECEMBER 18, 2002
MINUTES
I. CALL TO ORDER
The regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order at 7:30
p.m. by CHAIR SELIG on December 18,2002 in the Borough Assembly Chambers.
H. ROLL CALL
Commissioners Present Others Present
Clarence Selig-Chair Duane Dvorak,Director
Barbara Williams—Vice Chair Community Development Dept.
Cheryl Boehland Erin Whipple, Secretary
Reed Oswalt Community Development Dept.
Jake Ketscher
Dennis McMurry
A quorum was established.
Commissioners not present JAN 2 °"T
Rob Lindsey—Not Excused
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
COMMISSIONER OSWALT MOVED TO APPROVE the agenda as presented. The
motion was SECONDED by COMMISSIONER KETSCHER, and CARRIED by
unanimous voice vote.
IV. MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER MOVED TO APPROVE the minutes of November 20,
2002 Planning and Zoning Commission regular meeting as submitted. The motion was
SECONDED by COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS, and CARRIED by unanimous voice
vote.
V. AUDIENCE COMMENTS AND APPEARANCE REQUESTS
There were no audience comments or appearance requests.
Minutes:December 1 , 2002 Page 1 of 14
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VI, PUBLIC HEARINGS
A) Case S02-020. Request for vacation and replat of Lots 19 — 22, Block 3, New
Kodiak Subdivision and Lot 19A-2,Block 18, Kodiak Townsite creating Lot 20A,
Block 3,New Kodiak Subdivision.
STAFF indicated fifty-five (55) public hearing notices were distributed for this
case with no responses. Review agency comments were received from the
Department of Transportation requesting a dedication of twenty (20) feet along
the west property line in order to maintain the retaining wall. The applicant has
expressed that he has no objection to this condition. Staff believed that this
request meets the requirements for preliminary approval. Staff recommended
approval subject to one condition of approval.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER MOVED TO grant preliminary approval of the
vacation and replat of Lots 19 through 22, Block 3, New Kodiak Subdivision and
Lot 19A-2, Block 18, Kodiak Townsite Subdivision, creating Lot 20A, Block 3,
New Kodiak Subdivision and to adopt the findings in that staff report as "Findings
of Fact" for this case.
FINDINGS OF FACT
1. This plat meets the minimum standards of survey accuracy and proper
preparation of plats required in Title 16 of the Borough Code.
2. This plat meets all the requirements of Title 17 of the Borough Code.
3. This plat provides a subdivision of land that is consistent with adopted
Borough plans for this area.
The motion was SECONDED by COMMISSIONER WILLLkMS.
Regular session closed.
Public hearing opened:
Hearing and seeing none.
Public hearing closed.
Regular session opened:
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER noted that he did not include the condition of
approval recommended by Staff in his motion. He does not believe the dedication
has anything to do with, or should be a requirement for approval of this
subdivision. He feels that if the Department of Transportation (hereafter referred
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to as DOT) wishes to acquire a portion of this piece of property, they should go
through the process of purchasing it, separate from the subdivision.
Staff, per the Chair's request, elaborated on the condition of approval, stating that
the property owner has been contacted about this request and did not object to this
request, instead requesting that the maintenance need of the retaining wall be
conveyed to DOT. Staff also stated that DOT did not present this request as
something they would strenuously object to if not approved.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER and Staff reiterated their positions on this issue
again.
The question was called, and the motion CARRIED by unanimous roll call vote.
COMMISSIONER BOEHLAND MOVED TO AMEND the main motion to add
the condition of approval contained in the staff report dated December 11, 2002
that reads as follows:
I. Dedicate 20 feet from the rear of Lot 19A-2 to the West Rezanof
Drive right-of-way as requested by the Alaska Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities.
COMMISSIONER MCMURRY SECONDED the amendment.
The question was called, and the motion CARRIED four(4) yays to two (2)nays.
Mr. Krtscher and Mr. Oswalt were the two nays.
The question was called on the amended main motion and CARRIED four (4)
yays to two (2) nays. Mr. Ketscher and Mr. Oswalt were the two nays.
B) Case S02-022. Request for replat portions of T21S, R19W and R2OW, Seward
Meridian creating Tracts A, B, C and D Afognak Joint Venture Subdivision,
Delphin Bay Addition.
COMMISSIONER SELIG declared a conflict of interest for public hearing items
B and C, stating that he is a shareholder in Afognak Native Corporation, which is
part of the Afognak Joint Venture (also known as AJV), applicant for both cases.
He also served as a director for Koniag, Inc. for nine years, many times having to
deal with the Afognak Joint Venture.
COMMISSIONER OSWALT MOVED TO EXCUSE Commissioner Selig from
discussion on these two cases.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS SECONDED the motion.
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The question was called, and CARRIED by unanimous roll call vote.
COMMISSIONER SELIG handed the gavel to Vice Chair COMMISSIONER
WILLIAMS.
STAFF indicated nine (9) agency review letters were distributed for this case.
Two agencies responded with verbal comments.
The Kodiak Island Borough Engineering & Facilities department felt that
reserving road right-of-way for future uses is necessary. They requested a wider
right-of-way, eighty (80) feet, than platted on the preliminary plat due to lack of
topographic information for this area. Staff drafted condition of approval number
3 to address this issue. The applicant can bring additional information to the
Engineering and Facilities director and have him sign off on a lesser width
requirement. In addition, the easement would need to be recorded prior to final
approval of the plat if Tract C is going to rely on this proposed easement for
access.
Fish and Game was the other respondent. They requested a reference on the final
plat cross-referencing the public access provisions of ANIILCA. Fish and Game
felt that a simple plat note stating "these lands are subject to applicable laws" or
"these lands are subject to applicable ANILCA provisions"would be sufficient.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER questioned Staff as to the date notices were sent
out and what likelihood the Alaska Department of Fish and Game is going to
come back with any concerns from the Alaska Attorney General's office?
Staff responded that notices were mailed on December 2, 2002 and that the
message from Robin Willis, Fish and Game, was received that afternoon
(December 18, 2002) indicating that they had some sort of preliminary indication
that ANILCA really didn't envision the breakdown of the Afoak Joint Venture
and that they weren't sure this break-up and subsequent land subdivision would
have any effect on ANILCA. It was stated that it didn't appear that their concerns
were as great as they initially indicated.
Staff believed this request meets the requirements for preliminary plat approval.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER MOVED TO grant preliminary approval of a
request to replat portions of T21S, R19W, and T21 , R20W, Seward Meridian
creating Tracts A, B, C and D, Afognak Joint Venture Subdivision, Delphin Bay
Addition, subject to the conditions of approval contained in the staff report dated
December 16, 2002, and to adopt the findings in that staff report as "Findings of
Fact" for this case.
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CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL
1. Provide certification block language that is consistent with the requirements of
KIBC 16.50. In particular, change the reference in Plat Approval to indicate
Borough Manager instead of Borough Mayor.
2. Place a note on the final plat referencing the applicable section of ANILCA
that provides for public access or, in the alternative, obtain a letter from
ADF&G indicating that no such plat note is needed.
3. Increase the width of the proposed access easement proposed to serve Tract C
to a minimum of 80 feet, or in the alternative, provide additional information
to the KEB Engineering and Facilities Director for review and approval of a
lesser right-of-way width.
4. Record a valid easement for the proposed access easement alignment shown in
support of Tract C, and reflect the recording number on the face of the final
plat.
FINDINGS OF FACT
I. This plat meets the minimum standards of survey accuracy and proper
preparation of plats required in Title 16 of the Borough Code.
2. This plat ineets all the requirements of Title 17 of the Borough Code.
3. This plat provides a subdivision of land that is consistent with adopted
Borough plans for this area.
The motion was SECONDED by COMMISSIONER BOEHLAND.
Regular session closed.
Public hearing opened:
Peter Olsen, Representative of K2niggkc.: State he was the employee that
worked in the field to design the easement. The purpose of the easement is to
grant access to the owner of Tract C. Felt the easement was adequate for the type
of road construction used on Afognak Island. Asked that the Commission
consider keeping the easement at 50 feet. Does not want to see the process
delayed at all. Provided a written statement that AJV has developed to include on
the plat addressing the public access concerns of Fish and Game.
COMMISSIONER OSWALT asked Mr. Olsen if they would be satisfied with a
60 foot easement? Mr. Olsen said that would not be a problem.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER stated to Mr. Olsen that notices were sent out to
agencies and Native corporations on December 2, 2002. Although allowable by
code, he feels it is a very short period of time in which to receive comments back
P&Z Minutes:December 18® 2002 Page 5 of 14
from said agencies and corporations, especially Fish and Game, who has said they
may be contacting the State Attorney General's office. Commissioner Ketscher
asked Mr. Olsen how Afognak Joint Venture would feel about postponing this
request until January?
Mr. Olsen stated that A-TV feels this is a pretty standard procedure. They are
aware of Fish and Game's concerns but feel the plat note they provided is enough
to satisfy those concerns. Would not like to see this case postponed.
Hearing and seeing none.
Public hearing closed.
Regular session opened:
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER MOVED TO POSTPONE this case until the
January 15, 2003 regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission.
The motion failed for lack of a second.
The question was called, and the motion CARRIED by unanimous roll call vote.
C) Case S02-023. Request for replat portions of T24S, R23W, Seward Meridian
creating Tracts A and B, Afognak Joint Venture Subdivision, Raspberry Strait
Addition.
STAFF indicated nine (9) agency review letters were distributed for this case.
There was no comment on this case from KE3 Engineering and Facilities
department but Fish and Game did express the same concern as they did on Case
S02-023, regarding the need for a plat note referencing ANILCA. Staff believed
this request met the requirements for preliminary approval.
COMMISSIONER BOEHLAND MOVED TO grant preliminary approval of a
request to replat portions of T24S, R23W, Seward Meridian creating Tracts A and
B, Afognak Joint Venture Subdivision, Raspberry Strait Addition, subject to the
conditions of approval contained in the staff report dated December 16, 2002, and
to adopt the findings in that staff report as "Findings of Fact" for this case.
CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL
1. Provide certification block language that is consistent with the requirements of
K113C 16.50. In particular, change the reference in Plat Approval to indicate
Borough Manager instead of Borough Mayor.
2. Place a note on the final plat referencing the applicable section of ANELCA
that provides for public access or, in the alternative, obtain a letter from
ADF&G indicating that no such plat note is needed.
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1. There was a clerical error in the decision;
2. The decision resulted from fraud or mistake; or
3. There is newly discovered evidence or a change in circumstances which by
due diligence could not have been discovered before the original hearing.
Staff believes that the Commission can find a clerical error was made, which
would allow for reconsideration. A motion worded in the reverse of what was
provided to them in October, namely to reverse the denial of the zoning
compliance permit, is included in their packet. Staff is still recommending denial
of the zoning compliance, or failing the proposed motion.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER MOVED TO GRANT reconsideration for Case
02-025, in accordance with KIBC 17.80.010.13, to correct a clerical error and to
consider whether other mistakes or new information should be considered for this
case.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS SECONDED the motion.
The question was called, and the motion CARRIED by unanimous roll call vote.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS MOVED TO AMEND the main motion to read:
Move to postpone action on Case 02-025 and to set it for a new public hearing on
January 15, 2003.
COMMISSIONER BOEHLAND SECONDED the amendment to the main
motion.
COMMISSIONER MC MOVED TO AMEND THE AMENDMENT
by changing the date to the regular meeting of February 19, 2003.
COMMISSOINER KETSCHER SECONDED the amendment to the amendment.
The question was called, and the amendment to the amendment CARRIED by
unanimous roll call vote.
The question was called, and the amended main motion CARRIED by unanimous
roll call vote.
B) Case 502-009. Reconsideration of preliminary approval, in accordance with
KIBC 16.60.030, of the vacation of Lots 2,3, and 4, U.S. Survey 3466 creating
Lots 1-4, Lakeshore Estates without the vacation of the 50 foot wide road and
utility easement on Lot 2, U.S. Survey 3466, which was vetoed by the KID
Assembly on October 17, 2002. (Stan Smith)
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FINDINGS OF FACT
1. This plat meets the minimum standards of survey accuracy and proper
preparation of plats required in Title 16 of the Borough Code.
2. This plat meets all the requirements of Title 17 of the Borough Code.
3. This plat provides a subdivision of land that is consistent with adopted
Borough plans for this area.
The motion was SECONDED by COMMISSIONER OSWALT.
Regular session closed.
Public hearing opened:
Hearing and seeing none.
Public hearing closed.
Regular session opened:
The question was called, and the motion CARRIED by unanimous roll call vote.
10 Minute Recess called so COMMISSIONER SELIG could resume as Chair.
VH. OLD BUSINESS
A) Case 02-025. Reconsideration, per 17.80.010, of the Planning and Zoning
Commission decision on appeal to AFFMM an administrative decision to deny a
zoning compliance permit to construct an attached addition and arctic entry onto
an existing mobile home located at Jackson's Mobile Home Park Space #68.
(Appellant: Don Lakings)
Staff reported that this case was heard by the Corrunission in October (2002). At
that time the recommendation from Staff was to affirm the decision to deny
zoning compliance. A motion was made to of that decision. That motion
failed with a 3-3 vote. Staffs interpretation at that time was that because the
motion failed, Staff s decision was upheld. The petitioner spoke to the KD3 Clerk
to file an appeal of this decision and upon review, the Clerk's opinion was that
while the motion did clearly fail, it was worded incorrectly to trigger the
automatic affirmation of Staff's decision and therefore the decision of the
Commission was inconclusive. The Clerk recommended that the petitioner bring
the case back before the Commission for a reconsideration.
Staff stated that the Cornmission may reconsider a decision only if it finds:
P&Z Minutes:December 18,2002 Page 7 of 14
emergency vehicle access and maneuvering must be satisfied as determined by
the Fire Marshal.
5. The forty (40) foot long container van currently located within the road and
utility easement on proposed Lot 2 must be removed from the easement, and,
if it is relocated on the property, that must be done with issuance of applicable
permits and in conformity with setback requirements.
6. Final plat approval is contingent on a statement of non-objection from ACS
indicating that the concern registered in the September 3rd and September 171h
e-mails has been addressed.
Findings of Fact
I. This plat meets the minimum standards of survey accuracy and proper
preparation of plats required in Title 16 of the Borough Code.
2. This plat meets all the requirements of Title 17 of the Borough Code.
3. This plat provides a subdivision of land that is consistent with adopted
Borough plans for this area.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER SECONDED the motion.
The question was called, and the motion CARRIED by unanimous voice vote.
C) Case 02-028. Findings of Fact. Request for conditional use permit, in
accordance with KIBC 17.26 and 17.67, to amend the site plan of a grandfathered,
nonconforming mobile home park located at US Survey 3098, Lot 14A-3B to
expand the mobile home park use in order to allow an additional mobile home
space.
Staff reported that the Commission at their November 20, 2002 regular meeting
denied the above request. The adoption of Findings of Fact to support the denial
was deferred for one month,
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER MOVED TO ADOPT findings contained in the
memorandum dated December 18, 2002 as "Findings of Fact" in support of the
denial of the conditional use permit.
FINDINGS OF FACT
1. In a recent appeal case previously reviewed by the Commission,
wherein an applicant was denied a zoning compliance permit for
the reconstruction of a mobile home addition to replace a pre-
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Staff reported that the Commission heard this case in September 2002, and
approved the replat as well as the vacation of a road and utility easement crossing
a portion of the property. The vacation portion of the request was vetoed by the
KIB Assembly. Staff believes this request should be reconsidered and still
believes that the request meets all the conditions necessary to grant preliminary
approval to the subdivision.
COMMISSIONER BOEHLAND MOVED TO RECONSIDER Case S02-009,
in accordance with KIBC 16.60.060.13, to address the proposed plat design
without the right-of-way easement vacation request that was vetoed by the KI13
Assembly on October 17,2002.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER SECONDED the motion.
The question was called, and the motion CARRIED by unanimous roll call vote.
COMMISSIONER OSWALT MOVED TO GRANT preliminary approval to the
vacation of Lots 2, 3 and 4, U.S. Survey 3466 creating is I through 4,
Lakeshore Estates Subdivision, subject to the six (6) conditions of approval
contained in the Memorandum dated December 18, 2002; and to adopt the finding
in that memorandum as "Finding of Fact" for this case.
CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL
1. Prior to final plat approval, zoning compliance and building permits, as well
as applicable inspection reports and/or certificate of occupancy required by the
Building Department must be obtained for the conversion of the occupied
garage on proposed Lot 2 into a single-family house. Occupancy will be
discontinued until these requirements are satisfied.
2. Within eight (8) months (by August 18, 2002), applicable inspection reports
and/or certificate of occupancy required by the Building Department must be
issued for conversion of the barn. on proposed Lot 3 to a single-family
residence, or it must be otherwise brought into compliance with Title 17-
Zoning. Absent this, zoning enforcement action will be initiated.
3. As required by KIBC 16.40.050B.3.a.ii, place a note on the final plat stating:
"Further subdivision of is 3 and 4 is prohibited as long as they rely on dual,
back-to-back flagstems for driveway access."
4. Plat a temporary road easement on proposed is I and 2, Lakeshore Estates,
as indicated by the "eyebrow" cul-de-sac on the revised preliminary plat dated
August 12, 2002. At a minimum, Uniform Fire Code (UFC) requirements for
P&Z Minutes:December 18,2002 Page 9 of 14
NEW BUSINESS
A) Review of resolution from the Board of Realtors requesting a review of the
practice of allowing flagstem lot designs in subdivisions.
Staff reported that the Board of Realtors presented this request and that at the
packet review several commissioners had expressed interest in investigating this
further. Staff suggested a March/April time frame to begin the investigation of
this issue, due to prior commitments by the Commission. Staff recommended if
the Commission wished to begin investigation of this matter, the appropriate
motion was to approve the draft letter addressed to the Board of Realtors.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS MOVED TO APPROVE the draft letter
addressed to the Kodiak Board of Realtors.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER SECONDED the motion.
The questions was called, and the motion CARRIED by unanimous voice vote.
IX. COMMUNICATIONS
A) Letter dated November 7, 2002 from Martin Lydick to Mr. Miguel Imperio regarding
notice of violation.
B) Planning and Zoning Commission training session notes from the November 6, 2002
parliamentary procedure class.
There were no further communications.
COMMISSIONER BOEIELAND MOVED TO ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT of item
A through item B of Communications. The motion was SECONDED by
COMMISSIONER OSWALT, and CARRIED by unanimous voice vote.
X. REPORTS
STAFF reported the following meeting schedule:
r January 8, 2003 work session at 7:30 p.m. in the KIB Conference room.
■ January 15, 2003 regular meeting at 7:30 p.m. in the Assembly Chambers.
Staff reported that he had spoken with Commissioner Williams and asked her to serve on
the Womens Bay Comprehensive plan management team. Commissioner Williams
agreed to do so. Staff also suggested Commissioner Boehland, if she wished, could serve
on this team as she and Commissioner Williams reviewed the RFPs. Staff also
P&ZMinutes:December 1 ,2002 page 12 of 1
(23)
existing, nonconforming addition that had been removed from the
unit, the Commission found that the applicable provisions of KIBC
17.36 require that changes to nonconforming structures and uses in
mobile home parks requires movement toward conformity with the
current requirements of KEBC 17.26 (Mobile Home Parks), The
Commission needs to be consistent in light of this recent decision
and not make substantially different rulings from month-to-month.
2. This case involves the application of nonconforming rights, as
referenced in KIIBC 17.36. When changes occur to nonconforming
structures and uses in mobile home parks, those changes may
negate the nonconforming rights to a use or structure.
3. The site appears to be a tight site in terms of the improvements
currently required in a mobile home park by KEBC 17.26 (Mobile
Home Parks). The denial of the conditional use to amend the park
site plan will leave more room for park residents and may facilitate
future park improvements.
COMMISSIONER OSWALT SECONDED the motion.
The question was called, and the motion CARRIED by unanimous roll call vote.
D) Case S02-017. Findings of Fact for the denial of a portion of Case 02-017 —
Preliminary approval, in accordance with KEBC 16.60, of the vacation of a fifty
(50) foot wide road and utility easement bisecting Lot 7A. (The adoption of
findings has been deferred from the November 20, 2002 regular meeting)
(Applicant: KIB)
COMMISSIONER OSWALT MOVED TO ADOPT the findings contained in
the memorandum dated December 18, 2002 as "Findings of Fact' in support of
the denial of the vacation of a fifty (50) foot wide road and utility easement
bisecting Lot 7A.
FINDINGS OF FACT
1. The easement is perceived to have a benefit to the public, particularly to the
surrounding property owners. In addition, the easement may be a benefit to
the future development of Tract A, Raven Hills Subdivision by allowing the
development of appropriate legal and physical access within the tract asp of
a future subdivision.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER SECONDED the motion.
The question was called, and the motion CARRIED by unanimous roll call vote.
P&Z Minutes-December 18,2002 Page 11 of 14
suggested that incoming commissioner, Dr. Gary Carver, might be interested in serving
on that to as he is a resident of Womens Bay.
Staff thanked Commissioner Selig for his seven years of service on the Planning and
Zoning Commission.
Staff welcomed Dr. Gary Carver and Jerrol Friend as incoming commissioners.
There were no ftu-ther reports.
CONMflSSIONER BOEHALAND MOVED TO ACKNOWLEDGE receipt of reports.
The motion was SECONDED by COMIVISSIONER TSC R, and CARRIED by
unanimous voice vote.
AUDIENCE COMMENTS
Mel Stevens: Commented on case 02-020. Felt that the condition of approval
(dedicating 20 feet of the property to DOT) was very wrong and was not relevant to the
replat. He doesn't feel that the Commission has the legal authority to require Mr. James
give this portion of his property to DOT.
Pat Branson, Assembly Member: Thanked the Comn-dssion for their work. Thanked
Clarence for his years of service. Wished everyone a Happy Holidays.
I. COMMISSI ONERS' COMMENTS
CO SIO MCMURRY: Responded to Mr. Stevens, who spoke under audience
comments, stating that the reason he voted the way he did on case 02-020 is that he's not
a lawyer, he relies on staff comments, and because staff had contacted the applicant who
seemed to not have a problem with the dedication then he didn't see any reason why he
should have a problem with it.
COMMISSIONER KETSCHER: Thanked Clarence for his work, he's enjoyed serving
with him the past year. Thinks they had a pretty good meeting. Agrees with Mr. Stevens
wholeheartedly and feels they've set bad precedent. Feels the dedication of the land
should be dealt with as a separate issue. Feels they rushed into the Afognak subdivisions.
Doesn't expect any problems but feels the review agencies didn't have enough time to
comment thoroughly.
CONMSSIONER BOEHLAND: Wished everyone Happy Holidays.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Said she was really going to miss Clarence, thanked
him for all his help since she's been on the Commission. Appreciated Rob Lindsey's
insight as well. Wished everyone a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
P&Z Minutes:December 18,2002 Page 13 of 14
IN
CO1vMSSIONER OSWALT: Said he'd miss Clarence and his historic knowledge of
Kodiak. Stated that it had been a pleasure to work with him and he hoped the best for
him.
CONMSSIONER SELIG: Thanked the Commissioners there and to all the past
Commissioners he'd worked with. It's been a learning experience. He put in seven
years, 2 years as a Commissioner, 2 years as Vice Chair and 2 years as Chairman. It has
been very rewarding. There have been difficult cases but with everyone's diversity and
expertise they've been able to work toward solid decisions. Wished everyone Happy
Holidays.
XM. ADJOURNMENT
CHAIR SELIG ADJOURNED the regular meeting at 9:15p.m.
KODIAK ISLAND BOROUGH
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMSSION
By:
C+aenceffft, Chair
C01 I I iarn
ATTEST
By:
Erin Whipple, Secretary
Community Development Department
DATE APPROVED: January 15, 2003.
P&Z Minutes:December 18,2002 Page 14 of 14