Loading...
2013-11-12 Regular Meeting KODIAK ISLAND BOROUGH PARKS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE TRAIL SUMMIT MINUTES November 12,2013 at 7 p.m. Kodiak Island Borough Assembly Chambers CALL TO ORDER CHAIR SALTONSTALL called to order the November 12, 2013 Borough Parks & Recreation Trail Summit at 7 p.m. ROLL CALL Rick Lindholm requested excusal. Members present were Pam Foreman, Jeff Huntley, Patrick Saltonstall, Michael Marion, Helm Johnson Michael Scalzo, and . Ex-officio member Alan Schmitt. Excused was Rick Lindholm, Ex-officio members absent were Aaron Griffin,Jack Ransom, and Steve Doerksen. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN MOVED to excuse Rick Lindholm. VOICE VOTE CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY Community Development staff present was Jack Maker and Sheila Smith. Also present from the IT Department was Paul Van Dyke. Public present was Jessica and Wyatt Horn, Mark Stichert, Gary Carver, Deborah Carver, Judi Kidder,Joe Dinnocenzo,Jeremiah Gardner, and William Donaldson. APPROVAL OF AGENDA COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN MOVED to approve the agenda. VOICE VOTE CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING • September 24 and October 22, 2013 minutes (deferred to the November 26, 2013 Regular Meeting) AUDIENCE COMMENTS AND APPEARANCE REQUESTS None. OLD BUSINESS None NEW BUSINESS A. Trails Summit 1. Trails Summit and TMO introduction and 2. Jack & Lee Lakes Trail Management Objectives Presentation combined. CHAIR SALTONSTALL talked about what the Trail Summit is explaining it's an outgrowth of the Trails Plan. Rather than going through every area and putting it in the Trails Plan we decided it will be a living document doing each area one by one, areas that the public are interested in and creating these Trail Management Objectives (TMO's). To clarify TMO's are not policy; they are documenting the condition of the trails, how they're being used, and then we're coming up with ideas on how to move forward with these areas. He stated at their next meeting they will be coming up with an overall statement to accompany the TMO's that will go 11/12/2013 Page 1 of 6 P&R Trail Summit Minutes along with the document to the Assembly. What you have to say will go to the Assembly. CHAIR SALTONSTALL showed the area on the maps that the committee has looked at over the past year explaining there are different owners; there is State Land, Ouzinkie Native Corporation, Leisnoi, Coast Guard, and Borough and there's also different zoning; Conservation and the rest is Natural Use. For each landowner there had to be a different TMO and the same with the zoning. The TMO's talk about the how degraded the trails are and how steep they are. Andy Schroeder GPS'd the trails and conditions recording that information so Van Dyke can put that information in the TMO.With input we came up with how the trails are being used and what they look like. He showed which trail is swamp and which trail is best for hardening. He talked about the different areas where it's mostly hiking now with hardly any four wheeling. There is no 17b easement across Ouzinkie and Leisnoi land. We put on the TMO's that in the future to try to get some sort of access easements for these areas because you need land owner permission to go onto the property. There's a need of bridges and various other things in some areas. Now that these TMO's are done the committee hopes to get funding for hardening or bridges and such. We hope to come up with an area that the borough can put on the CIP List. Public Comment was opened: Judi Kidder stated during the summer the Moon family and her family spent a considerable amount of time out on the Jack& Lee Lakes area cleaning it up and hauled over 2 truckloads of scrap metal, over 30 big garbage bags of trash, and had a burn pile going all day. They also had a 55 gallon drum of shot gun shells and that was just from one spot on the trail.She's been noting the questions being asked on Friends of Kodiak by newcomers to the island about where they can go four wheeling, shooting, etc. There's a lot of telling people where not to do things and she thinks as part of this program it would be great to designate some specific areas for those activities so people can be made aware of what they can do and where to do it. If you give people a place to do it as opposed to telling them where they can't they will respect the areas a lot more and we'll have a lot less trash and damage. Jeremiah Gardner from 58° North stated in the past decade we've seen a lot of trail systems taken away; a lot of it from Leisnoi. Historically we grew up with all these great trails to use and he thinks that's a massive part of why people live here, it's a big part of why he lives here. If anything the borough and city need to work in conjunction to add more miles of trails and open places back up and to come to agreements with people like Leisnoi to try to let us go out in the woods. He understands there's a certain amount of responsibility in taking care of the environment. He applauds the work that Island Trails Network does because they do a lot to increase the enjoyment of Kodiak in general. We don't have a shopping mall, an exciting night life, or other things you find in cities but we do have a vast wilderness to explore and he feels it's incredibly unfair to take any of it away from the general public. Most folks do care about the environment and try hard to do their part to keep it clean while there are some bad apples; it's not all of us. There are enough places we've already been restricted from and it's silly that we can't use off road vehicles on Pillar Mountain and places that we used to do it all the time. In conclusion, he has a vast amount of friends and relations on this island that love to use that trail system which he used 2 weeks ago; it's amazing and beautiful out there. If we need to expand Bells Flats we obviously have housing issues on the island and he thinks it's unrealistic to say we would expand back into that area or any of the other areas that have been taken away. He, his friends, and family would be very sad to see the Jack & Lee Lakes area taken away. The trail systems directly stimulate the local economy, they stimulate his business, Orion's, Napa, Carquest, and Yamaha; there are too many businesses and if you keep taking trails away it hurts everyone. 11/12/2013 Page 2of6 P&R Trail Summit Minutes CHAIR SALTONSTALL said he thinks everyone here agrees with Gardner and the purpose of these TMO's is to create access. The purpose will be in writing that we want to try to get access to Ouzinkie through an easement. 2. Alternatives for controlled access to Jack and Lee Lakes area Jack Maker stated the borough cleaned that area up about six years ago at the cost of about $3000 to remove junk vehicles. Between that time and our most recent cleanup we're averaging about $1000 to $1500 a year on man and equipment hours. Most recently we spent approximately $2500 to remove several junk vehicles. We partnered with Judi Kidder's group who removed a lot of junk and Maker pulled out two truckloads. There was an article with pictures in the newspaper with Nick Troxell coming out with vehicles on a forklift. The borough is looking for suggestions for ways we can reduce those costs and maybe some self- policing signage, whatever comes up in the conversation. CHAIR SALTONSTALL stated the borough talked about putting boulders down and it was very unpopular with reason and it seems not to be an option. We want to hear some great innovative ideas we'll put them before the assembly. We aren't talking about banning, what we're talking about is creating a nice place for people to shoot that's not at Sargent Creek. This is a time to brainstorm as a group to come up with ideas so we don't have the trash problem. Public Comment was opened: Judi Kidder stated part of the reason that why boulders were discussed was because one of the biggest problems is people towing vehicles up there and abandoning them, partying and lighting them on fire. Putting the boulders in place doesn't restrict access for four wheelers. It just restricts access to full size vehicles. Recreation vehicles, snow mobiles, four wheelers will still have access. Another option that was tossed out was a gate where they could get a permit from the borough for a key to the gate to use the area or have it restricted with park hours, or even trail cameras to see who's going up and doing things so if there is something there could be something to follow up on for remedial action but it does need to be monitored a lot more. Jeremiah Moon will tell you about the partying traffic that goes up there; broken beer bottles, hypodermic needles, appliances, and TV's. Kidder has photos of the before and after the cleaned up on one site.You would be amazed at what they found. COMMITTEE MEMBER MARION stated after we talked about the boulders is the folks that needed the use of a full size vehicle to get around that may be physically handicapped or otherwise and the placement of boulders would have stopped that. We took that into consideration. Jessica Horn stated she liked the idea of boulders or some sort of way to prohibiting the bigger vehicles. The point was driven home even harder this weekend when she and her family was up there and they discovered a homestead past upriver where it was obvious someone was living there all summer and possibly had a farm of illegal plants. From the tracks it was obvious they were using a large vehicle, not a four wheeler to drive up the river from the point where the shooting range was where you cross over to go over to Cope. There's also a Suburban up there again at the shooting range but we also have people accessing further up the river by driving through the salmon stream to this very established, it's more than a camp, she calls it a homestead so there's a whole bigger issue besides just the garbage now. She supports some sort of restricted access. CHAIR SALTONSTALL said it sounds like we need more law enforcement presence up there too. Jeremiah Gardner stated he wants to make the borough realize if you put boulders in it will 11/12/2013 Page 3 of 6 P&R Trail Summit Minutes only be a couple of hours before someone drags them off. If you put a fence with a key it won't be long before someone drives through it. He doesn't have a suggestion or a solution. Signage may work but people will shoot the sign. Maybe it's more of a concerted group effort to try to do some self-policing. The Troopers will not go back there on a regular patrol but if everyone as a group tried to let everyone know what's going on whenever anyone is back there. A lot of people live here so they can go into the woods to do whatever they want and that's part of what Alaska is all about. What others want to do is not good but he wants to encourage the borough to be wise with money, it only takes a rope to drag a boulder. He thanked Kidder for all the work she does around the community. CHAIR SALTONSTALL called a break to allow everyone to look at the maps and talk about what they see. CHAIR SALTONSTALL reconvened the meeting at 7:45 p.m. and said he heard some really good ideas. COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN put a quick synopsis of the discussion around the maps; boulders or a gate brushing and opening up the area so there's more peer pressure and perhaps of creating a sense of pride in that place so people won't abuse it as much, we also talked about the actual beginning of the trail where the pallets are that were there yesterday, there's that little area where some parking development could be done and improve the road to that point and doing some parking and putting gates or a boulder for the section going down to the river. The other big thing was a better solution to a public access shooting range and trying to come up with the solution that encourages people to do their shooting at those areas. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON said they were trying to clarify where the homestead site was that Mrs. Horn and her family found. Mrs. Horn suggested concrete pillars instead of boulders. Jeremiah Gardner just wanted to remind everyone that everyone has some good ideas but the one thing that everyone agrees on that groups like Judi Kidder's are doing really good things for the island and no one has picked up this much trash in years t we need to figure out is a way to increase that group and fund it. You're not going to be able to raise taxes to do it but there may be a source of some taxable revenue because sometimes money gets wasted in government so he thinks that they are making a huge impact and we should encourage it and help it. CHAIR SALTONSTALL said part of making it and keeping it clean in the long haul will discourage trashing it too. Gardner stated the only people he can think of that goes out and trashes the area are high school kids that are going somewhere to party. He thinks one way to curb that is to increase healthy activities for kids like a skate park and those sorts of things. We need to get people doing healthy activities. That's what he did when his friends were popping pills in high school. Besides those people are drug users and we need to figure out a way to bring that down too. But the guys going back there to rip their motorcycle or a jeep bought this expensive toy to play with, they didn't buy this expensive toy to go get smashed in the woods. He doesn't think those are the ones we need to avoid back there. There are bad apples but not everyone. CHAIR SALTONSTALL said we'll come up with the conclusion at the next meeting. He invited the public if they would like to be a part of that on November 26th in the downstairs school district conference room. 3. Introduction of next area for Trail Management Objectives - Pillar Mountain to Bells Flats 11/12/2013 Page 4 of 6 P&R Trail Summit Minutes CHAIR SALTONSTALL introduced the next area for TMO's stating the area between city land on top of Pillar all the way to Bells Flats and includes the top of the Old Woman's Trail. We'll be looking at all those segments. Most of that land is Coast Guard but there is Natives of Kodiak, State land. Zoning is mostly Conservation except a little bit of Watershed on top of Pillar Mountain. In terms of TMO's we'll probably be breaking out Old Woman's that will be one trail, Burma Road will be another trail, and the different land owner's will get a different TMO. There's a lot of skiing, four wheeling, and hiking in there. There are also hunting restrictions. The Coast Guard has some areas open to hunting and some that aren't. There are a lot of different things that we'll have to integrate into our TMO's but most importantly is your input. Public Comment was opened: Judi Kidder said developing Burma Road has a lot of potential because if there's a disaster that cuts off the Flats Burma Road is pretty much is the safe exit out of the Flats and she thinks the borough could probably get some funding for developing and getting that where it could be an evacuation road which would help to develop the trails off Burma Road. CHAIR SALTONSTALL stated a lot of these trails have been hardened and he's talked to Andy Schroeder about maybe having Swampy Acres area four wheelers in the summer and skiers in the winter. Jessica Horn stated Burma Road use to be in really good condition for four wheelers until the landslide. If that could be remediated back to the quality t it was before the flooding it would be great. Also needed is an established river crossing there; a lot of people use the river access road by the Island Seafood's storage yard and people use that as a river crossing but it's not an official river crossing. CHAIR SALTONSTALL said there will be other opportunities to talk about these things as we are just getting started; this is our first look at the area. 4. Audience comments on road system trails issues - 3 minutes per speaker (Identify project ideas, talk about trail conditions, and issues) CHAIR SALTONSTALL asked for any comments on any road system trails. Mark Stichert stated as you move forward on the Burma Road TMO's you'll find that shooting and garbage isn't an issue. It's because that area is open and available to four wheelers but not to trucks. As you are rapping up Jack & Lee Lakes you can see the effect of limiting some of the larger vehicle traffic may do for you because the Burma trail is that example that you won't be trying to overcome garbage and firearms because you're somewhat limiting access to people who most will be abusing it. CHAIR SALTONSTALL said we are going to have to talk a lot to the Coast Guard because most of the middle is Coast Guard land. CHAIR SALTONSTALL stated on Near Island the gravel pit prevents you from making the loop back around where the boat lift is. It would be nice to make an improvement there. Right along the top of the gravel cut there could be a trail. COMMUNICATIONS - None REPORTS Meeting Schedule: • November 26, 2013 Parks & Recreation Regular Meeting at 7 pm. in the KIB School District Conference Room 11/12/2013 Page 5 of 6 P&R Trail Summit Minutes AUDIENCE COMMENTS None COMMITTEE MEMBERS COMMENTS Pam Foreman thanked everyone who came. She invited the public to come back on the 26th when they will try to come up with a recommendation to the assembly. We'll be in the downstairs School District conference room at the end of the hall. Michael Marion thanked everyone and he wished more folks would have showed up because it's a tough position for us to put together a summary next week. We've heard from the Bells Flats people and he feels a tide pushing in one direction towards some form of restriction but at the same time he's concerned that people that are against that didn't show up to speak about what their thought were. Patrick Saltonstall thanked everyone for coming and he hopes that down the road these trail summits get quite big and in the future we'll make a longer break period in the middle. Michael Scalzo wondered about the idea of a neighborhood watch in the Bells Flats area as you had mentioned a lot of heavy traffic around 10-12 p.m. On those nights it's obvious there's partying, why aren't the cops not being called. Jessica Horn stated they won't come out. They tell you they'll put an extra patrol out there. That's their standard response. Scalzo said he's lived in places where the neighbors have come together and started a neighborhood watch, would folks be willing to band together to do that. Would your voice be better heard by the authorities if you were officially a neighborhood watch and you had a sign stating that? Jessica Horn said there is a sign but there is no watch. ADJOURNMENT COMMITTEE MEMBER FOREMAN MOVED to adjourn. VOICE VOTE ON MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. CHAIR SALTONSTALL adjourned the meeting at 8:02 p.m. ODI SLAN • BORSUGH PARKS & EC NEAT? IOM 11 ' EE By: Af t - I I 1'�__ Pat c Sa ton7a7, Chair ATTEST: By: __ , __ Sheila Smith, Secretary Community Development Department APPROVED: January 28, 2014 11/12/2013 Page 6 of 6 P&R "frail Summit Minutes